The Divine right of Kings

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
It is because I am reading books concerned with the topic. I thought i made that obvious. Perhaps not obvious enough.

Charles I is not leaning on any connectivity with the church, he derives his beliefs from interpretation of scripture some of which have been cited. Parliament and the Puritans also during his trial quote scripture in support of ...[text shortened]... ry difficult to argue in the face of such that the King is subject to, 'the will of the people'.

This clearly says that the governing authorities are to be ministers of God to do good and a revenger to execute wrath upon him that does evil. If the authorities do evil themselves, then they must be brought down.

The apostle Paul was giving advice as to how one should live under the authority of the government. We are not to disobey laws just because we disagree with them or else we might find ourselves being punished. This is why Christians should participate in govenment to keep it a force for good rather than from it becoming an evil force. Christians must be that force of good on earth until Christ returns in power and glory to execute His judgments and rule with a rod of iron.

HalleluYaH !!!
Praise the LORD !!!
Holy! Holy! Holy!

Originally posted by RJHinds
This clearly says that the governing authorities are to be ministers of God to do good and a revenger to execute wrath upon him that does evil. If the authorities do evil themselves, then they must be brought down.

The apostle Paul was giving advice as to how one should live under the authority of the government. We are not to disobey laws just because ...[text shortened]... dgments and rule with a rod of iron.

HalleluYaH !!!
Praise the LORD !!!
Holy! Holy! Holy!

Where does it state in the Bible that if the authorities do evil they are to be brought down by its subjects?

For what I do know and understand was that Paul was writing to the congregation in Rome, whose leader was licentious, immoral, bloodthirsty, incestuous and a persecutor of Christians and yet Paul counseled the brothers to be subject to that governmental authority of Rome.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
Where does it state in the Bible that if the authorities do evil they are to be brought down by its subjects?

For what I do know and understand was that Paul was writing to the congregation in Rome, whose leader was licentious, immoral, bloodthirsty, incestuous and a persecutor of Christians and yet Paul counseled the brothers to be subject to that governmental authority of Rome.

Now, robbie you have to use your common sense. The early Christians were a small force and had little or no influence on the Roman government. But over time Christianity grew and became a larger force to change the leadership to favor them. Christians must continue to do that today. 😏

Originally posted by RJHinds
Now, robbie you have to use your common sense. The early Christians were a small force and had little or no influence on the Roman government. But over time Christianity grew and became a larger force to change the leadership to favor them. Christians must continue to do that today. 😏

Do you consider Constantine's contribution to the Christian faith to be of higher spiritual quality then that of the Apostle Paul ?

Originally posted by sonship
Do you consider Constantine's contribution to the Christian faith to be of higher spiritual quality then that of the Apostle Paul ?

No 😏

Originally posted by RJHinds
No 😏

Thankyou. I was worried.

By the way, I hope you are praying for the Syrian refugees pouring into Germany.
God has His sovereign ways to cause the gospel of the kingdom to spread to all people in the world. And that even if human governments have another idea.

This gospel of the kingdom will be preached in all the world. And then the end will come.

Originally posted by sonship
Thankyou. I was worried.

By the way, I hope you are praying for the Syrian refugees pouring into Germany.
God has His sovereign ways to cause the gospel of the kingdom to spread to all people in the world. And that even if human governments have another idea.

This gospel of the kingdom will be preached in all the world. And then the end will come.

No I am not praying for those Muslim demons.

Originally posted by sonship
Thankyou. I was worried.

By the way, I hope you are praying for the Syrian refugees pouring into Germany.
God has His sovereign ways to cause the gospel of the kingdom to spread to all people in the world. And that even if human governments have another idea.

This gospel of the kingdom will be preached in all the world. And then the end will come.

Hallelujah!!!
Praise Jehovah you people!!!
btw
Concerning the rights of Kings 1 Samuel 8:5,8,9,18,19 could be considered.
Jehovah allowed the people to have a King over themselves.
Samuel anointed Saul as the 1st King.
Jehovah replaced Saul with David as the 1st permanent King.
In the line of Kings that followed, Jehovah at times permitted Kings to be removed by paople because of their badness but He always controlled the line of Kings as the
Messiah would come from them.
As for the Kings of Nations, Luke 4:5,6 where Satan tempted Jesus could be considered.

Jesus did not correct Satan by saying that he did not have authority over the Nations.
So could we say that it is by the "divine right" of the god of this system of things that Kings rule?

Originally posted by roigam
Hallelujah!!!
Praise Jehovah you people!!!
btw
Concerning the rights of Kings 1 Samuel 8:5,8,9,18,19 could be considered.
Jehovah allowed the people to have a King over themselves.
Samuel anointed Saul as the 1st King.
Jehovah replaced Saul with David as the 1st permanent King.
In the line of Kings that followed, Jehovah at times permitted Kings to be ...[text shortened]... uld we say that it is by the "divine right" of the god of this system of things that Kings rule?

Interesting post with a few things I might respond to.

I think I recall that you don't like my posts that are too many sentences long.
Is that you or someone else?

Anyway, I will take the time to look up those passages in First Samuel before I would say anything.

Originally posted by roigam

Praise Jehovah you people!!!
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I do. I do.


Concerning the rights of Kings 1 Samuel 8:5,8,9,18,19 could be considered.
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Good verses. I read them. OK.

Jehovah allowed the people to have a King over themselves.
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Right. Israel wanted to be like the nations around them.


Samuel anointed Saul as the 1st King.
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That's right.

Jehovah replaced Saul with David as the 1st permanent King.
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That's right. David is a big foreshadow of Christ.

In the line of Kings that followed, Jehovah at times permitted Kings to be removed by paople because of their badness but He always controlled the line of Kings as the
Messiah would come from them.
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I think the thing which is exemplary about the story of Saul and David is that David utterly refused to use the typical expected worldly procedures to usurp the God appointed king. David was fearful to establish anything of his own authority in this particular matter. He would not put forth his hand against the Lord's anointed.

It smote his conscience even when he cut off a little piece of Saul's garment in the dark cave, to prove to Saul that he had the power to slay him.

David, the king after the heart of God, would not do anything to establish his own authority. He completely left this up to God. Would you agree that this was an exemplary characteristic of David with King Saul ?

Originally posted by roigam
Hallelujah!!!
Praise Jehovah you people!!!
btw
Concerning the rights of Kings 1 Samuel 8:5,8,9,18,19 could be considered.
Jehovah allowed the people to have a King over themselves.
Samuel anointed Saul as the 1st King.
Jehovah replaced Saul with David as the 1st permanent King.
In the line of Kings that followed, Jehovah at times permitted Kings to be ...[text shortened]... uld we say that it is by the "divine right" of the god of this system of things that Kings rule?

Thankyou its a very interesting perspective.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
Thankyou its a very interesting perspective.

You must also remember that the last thing Jesus said to His disciples was that all authority in heaven and earth had been given to Him and that they were to teach all that He had taught and baptize in the NAME of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost.

So the ultimate authority is God, not man. And God can use the people to bring down secular authorities just as He allows the people to raise up secular authorities when they go against His divine will. So it is Christ that has the divine right as King and Lord.

HalleluYaH !!!
Praise the LORD !!!
Holy! Holy! Holy!

Originally posted by RJHinds
You must also remember that the last thing Jesus said to His disciples was that all authority in heaven and earth had been given to Him and that they were to teach all that He had taught and baptize in the NAME of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost.

So the ultimate authority is God, not man. And God can use the people to bring down secular authoriti ...[text shortened]... has the divine right as King and Lord.

HalleluYaH !!!
Praise the LORD !!!
Holy! Holy! Holy!

this does still not explain where in the Bible the principle is found that people can depose a king or any secular ruler for that matter.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
this does still not explain where in the Bible the principle is found that people can depose a king or any secular ruler for that matter.

Daniel 2:21 and Psalm 75:7 and two places. 😏

Psalm 75:7

"For God is the Judge: He puts this one down and exalts that one."

RJHinds, are you implying that an armed militia of Christians is His typical means of putting down one ruler and exalting another ?

What do you think of the previous verses 5,6 in the same Psalm ?

"Do no lift your horn on high. Do not speak arrogantly with a haughty neck.
For neither from the east nor from the west, And neither from the south, does exaltation come;

For God is the Judge ... "

Daniel 2:22a

"And it is He who changes the times and seasons; He deposes kings and causes kings to ascend.

Are you saying Christians should arm themselves and arrange into military style militias or God will not be able to change times, seasons, or depose kings and cause others to ascend ?