17 Jun 21
@fmf saidSays the guy unwilling to deal with arguments that expand into the exercise of the free will 🙄 😴
You think the "forum is ripe for closing" because you are unable to deal with the argument that the torturer God ideology is morally incoherent? The forum should be closed down?
@philokalia saidBut I have dealt with your notion of "free will". However, simply referring to it is seemingly all you had. You are steadfastly not engaging what I have put to you about "free will" when it comes to "deciding" and "choosing" to believe supernatural things.
Says the guy unwilling to deal with arguments that expand into the exercise of the free will
17 Jun 21
@philokalia saidThis is a mischaracterization of my side of this discussion.
Run away? After FMF gives yuo a tiny, circular answer that he is unwilling to talk about further, and the conversation naturally dies...
17 Jun 21
@philokalia saidYep. In depth, with you, earlier this month, June, this forum. Your "stance" seems to rely on you pretending that that discussion never happened.
"I've addressed it elsewhere..."
@philokalia saidI see quite a few personal remarks about me. But, otherwise, a lot of what you say shows no sign you have read what you are purportedly replying to.
"You just didn't provide an adequate response."
What would be the moral purpose of torturing people, after they die, for not finding the religious beliefs you espouse to credible, and what would be the moral purpose of keeping all this stupendous, vengeful violence secret from non-believers who are still alive?
17 Jun 21
@fmf saidPhiloklia, have you started that thread on "psychological dispositions" which can cause a failure to believe in Jesus on the Science Forum yet?
Tell us more about your theory that there are non-believers who might have psychological dispositions which prevent them from believing in Jesus and so they will not be tortured for eternity for failing to do so. If you would prefer to start a thread about it on the Science Forum, I'll take a look at it.
17 Jun 21
@fmf saidNot at all. I am ready to discuss this at length.
Yep. In depth, with you, earlier this month, June, this forum. Your "stance" seems to rely on you pretending that that discussion never happened.
These questions have gone unanswered and are vital to any further discussion:
Are you responsible for the choices you make? Or are all the things we choose - and we believe - predetermined and beyond our control..?
Do you acknowledge that God does judge people based on who they are as individuals (Luke 12)?
17 Jun 21
@philokalia saidI have already answered this.
Are you responsible for the choices you make? Or are all the things we choose - and we believe - predetermined and beyond our control..?
17 Jun 21
@philokalia saidAnd I have already answered this.
Do you acknowledge that God does judge people based on who they are as individuals (Luke 12)?
@philokalia saidStill 'pending':
These questions have gone unanswered and are vital to any further discussion
What would be the moral purpose of torturing people, after they die, for not finding the religious beliefs you espouse to be credible during their lifetimes?
And what would be the moral purpose of keeping all this stupendous, vengeful, supernatural violence secret from the non-believers who are still alive?
17 Jun 21
@fmf saidThe answer to this is actually found in my two questions. You can deduce my stance on this from both of them.
Still 'pending':
What would be the moral purpose of torturing people, after they die, for not finding the religious beliefs you espouse to be credible during their lifetimes?
And what would be the moral purpose of keeping all this stupendous, vengeful, supernatural violence secret from the non-believers who are still alive?
Question one indicates that all people who are in hell have made choices of their own free will that have navigated them into this predicament.
Question two indicates that God is merciful and just, and will take into account all things on judgment day.
So, in a sense, if you are not willing to provide debate material for those two questions, there is no debate.
17 Jun 21
@philokalia saidYou have dodged my take on "free will" and why your notion of "free will" rings false, psychologically speaking, in the realm of superstition and profoundly subjective beliefs [a.k.a. faith] regarding supernatural causality. Indeed, it's not entirely clear if you have understood what I said or even read it, as there is no indication that you have in any of the stuff you have typed.
Question one indicates that all people who are in hell have made choices of their own free will that have navigated them into this predicament.
And besides, you just mentioning "free will" does not address the question of what the moral purpose or justification is of torturing for eternity people who do not find credible stuff that you do find credible.
17 Jun 21
@philokalia saidHow does this render coherent, in any way whatsoever, the morality of torturing people in burning flames for eternity for being non-believers?
Question two indicates that God is merciful and just, and will take into account all things on judgment day.
17 Jun 21
@philokalia saidYou are not answering them. You are sidestepping them. Here they are again:
The answer to this is actually found in my two questions. You can deduce my stance on this from both of them.
1] What would be the *moral purpose* of torturing people, after they die, for finding the religious beliefs that you espouse to be not credible during their lifetimes?
2] And what would be the moral purpose of keeping all this stupendous, vengeful, supernatural violence secret from the non-believers who are still alive?