The Good Father

@philokalia said
Nobody is tortured by God: they make a series of decisions which send themselves to hell.

As an ideology - that you apparently subscribe to - that supposedly explains what my fate will be as a non-believer - I see this as a witting or unwitting exercise in self-parody. Intellectually and spiritually speaking, nothing more and nothing less. Sorry for my candour.

@philokalia said
I am not righteous, and whtever sliver of righteousness I possess is due to the grace of God.

Then what were you prattling on about with this...

It does not make sense when we are appraising man and meting out cosmic justice. For someone who does not break the law simply because they will get caught is not a righteous person; but a person who does not break the law, even though they know that they are above it or know that they would not be caught, can be said to be doing something morally righteous.

@philokalia said
This is covered in my above post.

Are you then signing off on "THE BIBLE SAYS SO and IT WHAT IT IS" as the tl;dr version of this dogma you are reciting?

@philokalia said
Also covered in the above post.

I disagree. I think typing "Also covered in the above post" is, in fact, you sidestepping the post above.

@philokalia said
You follow your own moral compass. Just as every other atheist. This is inferior to that of God's, because it is man-made and naturalistic. But I am glad that you have principles that you stick to - even if they are not the right ones.

Is there something about the moral compass I use during my 4 score & 20 that means it is morally justifiable to burn me for 10,000,000,000 years after I die and then for eternity after that?

@philokalia said
Nobody is tortured by God: they make a series of decisions which send themselves to hell.

Hell is not something externally imposed, but it is resultant from one's disposition towards God.

Those who love God, accept Him, and follow Him, will have the flame on Judgment day feel as His Divine love, shining upon them. Those who have rejected God, and have turned ...[text shortened]... at one's own disposition and character determines their interaction with the uncraeted glory of God.

Efthimios Zigavinos? Theodoritos Kyrou?

'Appeal to Efthimios and Theodoritos' sounds like an informal fallacy.

@philokalia said
I am not righteous, and whtever sliver of righteousness I possess is due to the grace of God.

Do you think I might be a more righteous - and a more morally sound person - than you? Do you entertain the possibility? If so, where do I get my righteousness from? And, if it is so, why doesn't your God figure give you as much righteousness as I have?

@philokalia said
Nobody is tortured by God: they make a series of decisions which send themselves to hell.

People cannot make decisions to believe supernatural claims that they do not find credible.

It either creeps up on them [maybe rapidly, maybe slowly] and they realize they believe something, or, if they believe something, it might fade and be lost, but not as a result of any given decision; it's just something they realize they don't believe anymore.

This is how faith works, in my experience and according to my observations. This is how belief in supernatural things work.

So, are you saying that you believe I will be tortured after I die because I did not find your religion credible? Is that the long and short of it?

@divegeester said
Leaving aside the nonsensical nature of what you are saying for a moment; let me explore this premise with you. I’d appreciate straight answers please.

Firstly; Do people therefore send themselves to Heaven?

The pathway to heaven itself is based entirely on God's grace since our sins by themselves are enough to merit hell.

But yes, people cooperate with their own free will in their own salvation.

@divegeester said
Words in a religious book written thousands of years ago will not constitute as even evidence, let alone proof, that a God exists who has purposefully created a place of unimaginable suffering for those people who do not believe in him.

No, there is no proof, absolute or otherwise that a God has purposefully created a place of unimaginable suffering for those people w ...[text shortened]... e juxtaposed with the loving nature of God it seems odd to hide the punishment away don’t you think?

So why are yuo a Christian?

Sure, take up that position, but it is actually irrelevant as we are discussing this from a moral perspective and it is not a discussion on whether or not we can prove hell.

@divegeester said
According to the interpretation of elements of the book of Revelation by sonship, yourself, and others God does indeed torture people.

Unless of course you don’t regard your version of Jesus being personally present in hell with his angels, and him overseeing the billions of human beings being “cast into a lake of fire where the smoke of there suffering goes up forever” as being “torture”?

Does God see that people have sent themselves to hell, and witness this fact?

Yes.

@fmf said
As an ideology - that you apparently subscribe to - that supposedly explains what my fate will be as a non-believer - I see this as a witting or unwitting exercise in self-parody. Intellectually and spiritually speaking, nothing more and nothing less. Sorry for my candour.

[Insults]

@fmf said
Then what were you prattling on about with this...

It does not make sense when we are appraising man and meting out cosmic justice. For someone who does not break the law simply because they will get caught is not a righteous person; but a person who does not break the law, even though they know that they are above it or know that they would not be caught, can be said to be doing something morally righteous.

There's a distinction between a broken person who does things that are morally righteous through their own cooperation and a broken person who does not cooperate with the efforts to do righteousness.

@fmf said
I disagree. I think typing "Also covered in the above post" is, in fact, you sidestepping the post above.

How so?

@fmf said
Is there something about the moral compass I use during my 4 score & 20 that means it is morally justifiable to burn me for 10,000,000,000 years after I die and then for eternity after that?

I have no idea whether or not you will go to hell, and I have no idea about your moral compass.