The Good Father

@fmf said
Efthimios Zigavinos? Theodoritos Kyrou?

'Appeal to Efthimios and Theodoritos' sounds like an informal fallacy.

We cite experts on the tradition to explain the tradition succinctly and because it makes no sense to trust 'Philokalia' or 'FMF' from DuH InTeRnEt! on these topics.

@fmf said
People cannot make decisions to believe supernatural claims that they do not find credible.

It either creeps up on them [maybe rapidly, maybe slowly] and they realize they believe something, or, if they believe something, it might fade and be lost, but not as a result of any given decision; it's just something they realize they don't believe anymore.

This is how faith wor ...[text shortened]... ortured after I die because I did not find your religion credible? Is that the long and short of it?

SO, according to FMF's experience, he does not have the ability to believe in God.

Why, exactly? Do you think it is too irrational?

@philokalia said
We cite experts on the tradition to explain the tradition succinctly and because it makes no sense to trust 'Philokalia' or 'FMF' from DuH InTeRnEt! on these topics.

But where is your "argument" that eternal torture is morally coherent?

@philokalia said
I have no idea whether or not you will go to hell, and I have no idea about your moral compass.

This is an obvious dodge of the thrust of my question about the morality of what you propagate.

@philokalia said
There's a distinction between a broken person who does things that are morally righteous through their own cooperation and a broken person who does not cooperate with the efforts to do righteousness.

How am I "broken"? Are you "broken" too?

@philokalia said
[Insults]

If you think perceiving the dogma you are coming out with as something akin to self-parody, maybe you should ponder what it is you are coming out with.

@philokalia said
Sure, take up that position, but it is actually irrelevant as we are discussing this from a moral perspective and it is not a discussion on whether or not we can prove hell.

Credibility and coherence are intertwined.

@philokalia said
SO, according to FMF's experience, he does not have the ability to believe in God.

I used to believe in God but I lost my faith. It was not a decision I made. It's something I realized. I cannot decide to resume my faith. That's not how faith works. I may someday realize my faith has returned. It won't be the result of some kind of decision to have faith again. That's not how it works with superstition and belief in supernatural causality

@philokalia said
SO, according to FMF's experience, he does not have the ability to believe in God. Why, exactly? Do you think it is too irrational?

You can conduct yourself in as rational a way as you want in terms of what religious literature you read and what people of faith you talk to, but the onset of the "gut feeling" that constitutes faith is something you will realize has taken seat in your mind; you can't just decide to have faith.

And, no matter how rational you think you are, you can't just decide to not have that "gut feeling" and simply switch that faith off.

@philokalia said
The pathway to heaven itself is based entirely on God's grace since our sins by themselves are enough to merit hell.
But yes, people cooperate with their own free will in their own salvation.

Im not clear on where you stand; people do or don’t send themselves to heaven?

@philokalia said
So why are yuo a Christian?

Sure, take up that position, but it is actually irrelevant as we are discussing this from a moral perspective and it is not a discussion on whether or not we can prove hell.

I am a Christian because a portion of faith was given to me in order for me to believe. Through that faith I may look at the words in the Bible and subjectively find them to be true. That personal experience does not make the words objectively true for someone else. I’m a little surprised that this basic concept seems to have eluded you.

I am taking up “that position” because the absence of any evidence whatsoever that there is a secret place purposefully designed for the eternal torture of non Christians, speaks directly to the morality of its concept. Again I am surprised that I have to explain this to you.

@fmf said
But where is your "argument" that eternal torture is morally coherent?

Where is your argument that it is torture?

I am showing you that it is an unavoidable condition that results from the rejection of Christ and unrepentance for sins.

Your word of torture is not persuasive to me at all.

@fmf said
This is an obvious dodge of the thrust of my question about the morality of what you propagate.

Would you like to rephrase the question?

@fmf said
How am I "broken"? Are you "broken" too?

You are familiar with Christian theology enough to not need to ask this. This is sealioning.

@fmf said
I used to believe in God but I lost my faith. It was not a decision I made. It's something I realized. I cannot decide to resume my faith. That's not how faith works. I may someday realize my faith has returned. It won't be the result of some kind of decision to have faith again. That's not how it works with superstition and belief in supernatural causality

There's not really any argument for as to why it is the case, or any sort of explanation.

It is just some personal story and insistence that that's how it works.