Spirituality
27 Jan 09
28 Jan 09
2 edits
Originally posted by Bosse de NageThe christians should. He was a man of god, wasn't he? If he was inspired of god, then he must have been right, right? Or if he wasn't right, then why didn't god correct him? Well, many christians base their creationism beliefs on his 'scientific calculations'.
Why should we believe him? He obviously took it all too literally. Don't forget the temporal elasticity defence.
28 Jan 09
Originally posted by FabianFnasAnd Fabian, unable to answer Bosse, retreats into his comfort zone...again.
The christiana should. He was a man of god, wasn't he? If he was inspired of god, then he must have been right, right? Or if he wasn't right, then why didn't god correct him? Well, many christians base their creationism beliefs on his 'scientific calculations'.
28 Jan 09
1 edit
Originally posted by PalynkaI am sure there are myths about them too - though fires are not nearly as harmful as floods in most places. I don't think fires became catastrophic until cities were built.
Sure, but why not droughts or fires?
The punishments God gave Egypt did not include fire.
Droughts are not catastrophic but rather slow killers and so generate different kinds of stories - especially those concerning the ability to foresee a specific drought or simply the wisdom of preparing for such an eventuality.
I think you would find myths about earthquakes and volcanoes in areas where those are common - but again both were less harmful in the past before cities grew up.
28 Jan 09
Originally posted by twhiteheadI would think that mirrors quite well the near eastern flood myth. A certain individual/group is prepared and the rest die. The individual/group sees itself as chosen...and a myth could begin. The 'warning' could be either a product of bicamerality or posterior embellishment.
Droughts are not catastrophic but rather slow killers and so generate different kinds of stories - especially those concerning the ability to foresee a specific drought or simply the wisdom of preparing for such an eventuality.
I don't know, but it does seem intriguing how common flood myths are. I usually use the same explanation that you provided, but it still "seems" a bit short.
28 Jan 09
Originally posted by rwingettIt reminds me of Abrahams plea to God to save the people of Sodom and Ghommora. If I recall, God said that if only one "righteous" person could be found amongst them he would spare them.
Quibbling about the exact number of people drowned is the weakest possible defense imaginable. Does it really make a difference if it was "only" three to five million people? If Hitler had exterminated only 2 million people during the Nazi Holocaust, instead of 6 million, do you think it would lessen the magnitude of the crime? Would he rate only one-third of the condemnation?
28 Jan 09
Originally posted by rwingettTell you what, we will get you a robe and gavel so you can sit in judgment over the Almighty in style!! 😛
We are living just as God designed us. If God wanted different behavior, then he should have designed us differently. When he examined his finished blueprint for the first man, he knew in advance the very second when he would drown the resulting populace. He went ahead anyway, knowing that his design would displease him and that he would have to start over ...[text shortened]... ghtly condemn him. You god is in the same boat with Hitler and deserves the same condemnation.
28 Jan 09
Originally posted by PalynkaI haven't done much research on the subject. Are flood myths really that much more common than other myths? I know of no flood myths in Zambia - even though we have one tribe that lives on a flood plain and moves seasonally.
I would think that mirrors quite well the near eastern flood myth. A certain individual/group is prepared and the rest die. The individual/group sees itself as chosen...and a myth could begin. The 'warning' could be either a product of bicamerality or posterior embellishment.
I don't know, but it does seem intriguing how common flood myths are. I usually use the same explanation that you provided, but it still "seems" a bit short.
28 Jan 09
1 edit
Originally posted by twhiteheadFloods are common but that doesn't explain why flood myths commonly share motifs such as divine wrath and total extinction except for chosen survivor(s) who go on to found a dynasty.
The near universality of floods.
Zambia:
"The Malozi live in West Zambia in deep Central Africa. Annually they observe a religious spectacle of renewal and ritual when around the end of February, the Zambesi River floods and turns their farm lands into a mighty lake. A ceremonial procession of many small boats and canoes with the Chief’s royal barge using drums and xylophones, call their people to follow them to the safety of higher ground. This is known as Kuomboka. Their legends tell that before the time of their first Chief, there came a great flood known as “The Waters that Swallowed Everything”. In this deluge, all the animals died, and every farm was swept away. Their high god Nyambe ordered a man named Nakambela to build the first great canoe “Nalikwanda” (which means “for the people&rdquo😉. Before voyaging out on the stormy waters, the great canoe was loaded with every type of seed, and animal dung. At the place where this great canoe came to rest, the seeds were scattered to become the progenitors of the plants as we know them today and the animals once again sprang forth from the animal dung."
http://www.theosophydownunder.org/library/theosophical-lectures/[WORD TOO LONG]/
The article has other examples. It also suggests that the flood simply represents chaos; as plausible as any answer I've yet been given.
28 Jan 09
Originally posted by Bosse de NageI'm less sure about how ubiquitous is the dynasty founding part.
Floods are common but that doesn't explain why flood myths commonly share motifs such as divine wrath and total extinction except for chosen survivor(s) who go on to found a dynasty.
Zambia:
"The Malozi live in West Zambia in deep Central Africa. Annually they observe a religious spectacle of renewal and ritual when around the end of February, t ...[text shortened]... ests that the flood simply represents chaos; as plausible as any answer I've yet been given.
Some theories mention the end of the ice age, where oceans were about 100 m lower than today. The problem is that this was a VERY slow increase. Nevertheless, oral tradition may have changed "god will drown us all" to "god has drowned most of of us". The most rapid episode was this one:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meltwater_pulse_1A
28 Jan 09
Originally posted by PalynkaIt's not ubiquitous, but it's repeated in places. However an exhaustive study of flood motifs is something I'll leave to the experts. I suppose an important question is whether the various myths arose independently or were diffused, acquiring local characteristics in the process.
I'm less sure about how ubiquitous is the dynasty founding part.
Some theories mention the end of the ice age, where oceans were about 100 m lower than today. The problem is that this was a VERY slow increase. Nevertheless, oral tradition may have changed "god will drown us all" to "god has drowned most of of us". The most rapid episode was this one:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meltwater_pulse_1A
28 Jan 09
Originally posted by Bosse de NageI understand. I'm trying to poke holes in the mitochondrial connection because I don't find it very plausible. I guess that a requirement for such a connection is the existence of a proto-language.
It's not ubiquitous, but it's repeated in places. However an exhaustive study of flood motifs is something I'll leave to the experts. I suppose an important question is whether the various myths arose independently or were diffused, acquiring local characteristics in the process.