The Holy Spirit

Originally posted by RJHinds
Do they really think the angel Michael was Jesus Christ?
If so they appear beyond hope. May God have mercy on them
because of their ignorance.

you are teaching that Christ is the almighty, a created entity, thats even worse, for that is an act of pure idolatry.

Originally posted by jaywill
[b]========================================
Do they really think the angel Michael was Jesus Christ?
If so they appear beyond hope. May God have mercy on them
because of their ignorance.
====================================

They teach that it was Michael the archangel who became Jesus Christ.

I think this Jehovah's Witnesses ...[text shortened]... ons. It is definitely a doctrine of demons.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pdr28YTw66k[/b]

We are as far from a cult as you can get and your accusing us of that is as old as dirt...... Your welcome to actually look up the explination of a cult whenever you like.

Originally posted by jaywill
[b]========================================
Do they really think the angel Michael was Jesus Christ?
If so they appear beyond hope. May God have mercy on them
because of their ignorance.
====================================

They teach that it was Michael the archangel who became Jesus Christ.

I think this Jehovah's Witnesses ...[text shortened]... ons. It is definitely a doctrine of demons.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pdr28YTw66k[/b]

Do you really want me to point out how many persons you have killed in war as the
church bells sent literally millions to be sacrificed on the alter of war? how many
paedophiles have come from the ranks of both catholics and protestants? how many
persons your brother Calvin burned alive, shall we go to town on your form of
worship? shall we? how demonic do you think such acts are? even if our doctrines are
wrong we pale into insignificance with the demonic and satanic acts of the so called
Christian churches, how many persons have we persecuted in comparison to you?
women and little children the churches of Christendom have persecuted and here you
are pontificating from your chair about what is good and proper, you are as a whole
thoroughly shameful.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
you are teaching that Christ is the almighty, a created entity, thats even worse, for that is an act of pure idolatry.

According to John 1:1 the Son, called the Word, was with God in the
beginning and the Son was also God. Since the Son was in the
beginning before anything was created He could not have been created.
And the Holy Bible also says that the Son created all things and there
was not anything that was created that He did not create. So by
logical reasoning He could not have been one of the things He created
and since it says nothing was created that He did not create, the Son
of God could not be a created being.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
Do you really want me to point out how many persons you have killed in war as the
church bells sent literally millions to be sacrificed on the alter of war? how many
paedophiles have come from the ranks of both catholics and protestants? how many
persons your brother Calvin burned alive, shall we go to town on your form of
worship? shall we ...[text shortened]... icating from your chair about what is good and proper, you are as a whole
thoroughly shameful.

I believe the deaths in wars from Witnesses is....................."0"
How many guns have our elders blessed with Holy Water? ...."0"
How many have we put to death because of their beliefs?......."0"

Should I go on Robbie? I hope they get the point here as no TRUE CHRISTIAN would kill anyone much less a fellow believer.

I just noticed how many times RJ changes the subject here. I know most of my questions he is avoiding.

Originally posted by galveston75
I believe the deaths in wars from Witnesses is....................."0"
How many guns have our elders blessed with Holy Water? ...."0"
How many have we put to death because of their beliefs?......."0"

Should I go on Robbie? I hope they get the point here as no TRUE CHRISTIAN would kill anyone much less a fellow believer.

I just noticed how many times RJ changes the subject here. I know most of my questions he is avoiding.

Would it be accurate to say that Jehovah's Witnesses are relatively uninvolved in worldly affairs? I don't know the best word -- detached, uninterested, etc. and don't mean to use a disparaging term.

This reduced level of participation in secular worldly affairs would result in fewer conflict situations whether nationally or neighborhoodly, excepting perhaps those visited upon Witnesses by others. The religion is also a relatively new thing.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
Do you really want me to point out how many persons you have killed in war as the
church bells sent literally millions to be sacrificed on the alter of war? how many
paedophiles have come from the ranks of both catholics and protestants? how many
persons your brother Calvin burned alive, shall we go to town on your form of
worship? shall we ...[text shortened]... icating from your chair about what is good and proper, you are as a whole
thoroughly shameful.

I went to the link to the video on the Jehovah's Witnessess. Thank You.
Here is the link to another video I looked at while I was there. You
should take a look at it.

YouTube&NR=1&feature=fvwp

Originally posted by JS357
Would it be accurate to say that Jehovah's Witnesses are relatively uninvolved in worldly affairs? I don't know the best word -- detached, uninterested, etc. and don't mean to use a disparaging term.

This reduced level of participation in secular worldly affairs would result in fewer conflict situations whether nationally or neighborhoodly, excepting perhaps those visited upon Witnesses by others. The religion is also a relatively new thing.

Mark 12:14-17 (Today’s New International Version, ©2005)
14 They came to him and said, “Teacher, we know that you are a man of integrity. You aren’t swayed by others, because you pay no attention to who they are; but you teach the way of God in accordance with the truth. Is it right to pay the imperial tax[a] to Caesar or not? 15 Should we pay or shouldn’t we?”
But Jesus knew their hypocrisy. “Why are you trying to trap me?” he asked. “Bring me a denarius and let me look at it.” 16 They brought the coin, and he asked them, “Whose image is this? And whose inscription?”
“Caesar’s,” they replied.
17 Then Jesus said to them, “Give back to Caesar what is Caesar’s and to God what is God’s.” And they were amazed at him.

Jesus cleary explains what all Christians should do in obeying whatever government they may be under as for as paying our taxes.
But he also mentions paying God's things to God.

Any idea what that would include??????

Jesus also said:
John 18:36 (Today’s New International Version, ©2005)

36 Jesus said, “My kingdom is not of this world. If it were, my servants would fight to prevent my arrest by the Jewish leaders. But now my kingdom is from another place.”

Here he clearly says "his Kingdom is no part of the world." Any ideas what that means if your obeying your country to kill another human or get involved in politics? Who's kingdom are you a part of if you do not follow Jesus's words and do not get involved in worldy governments and all the man made problems it has?

But to accuse of us being uninterested is a joke. We are very aware of world events and the time period we are in because the Bible tells us to keep watch. And if spending 8 billion hours a year out trying to teach people what the Bible says about our time period and world events is being uninterested then you really have no clue of anything about us.

Originally posted by RJHinds
I went to the link to the video on the Jehovah's Witnessess. Thank You.
Here is the link to another video I looked at while I was there. You
should take a look at it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hISbLIr_2Sw&NR=1&feature=fvwp

So you accuse us of not reading your post which I do everyone of them by the way, and it's clear you don't read ours. You I believe attacked us that going door to door is not anything Jesus said to do. We answered that so clearly and yet you show us this video? Your not listening at all are you?

Originally posted by galveston75
So you accuse us of not reading your post which I do everyone of them by the way, and it's clear you don't read ours. You I believe attacked us that going door to door is not anything Jesus said to do. We answered that so clearly and yet you show us this video? Your not listening at all are you?

Yes, I am reading your posts and I try to check to make sure what is
said agree with what is said in the Holy Bible. Then I point out differences
which you are not willing to consider or give any serious thought to. You
dogged stick to teachings that are clearly contrary to biblical teachings and
also contrary to the accepted church teachings that have been past down
from the church fathers.

Originally posted by galveston75
We are as far from a cult as you can get and your accusing us of that is as old as dirt...... Your welcome to actually look up the explination of a cult whenever you like.

I changed that word to occult.

I do not have to use either the word "cult" or "occult". I know the teaching of the Watchtower. And I know that it is terribly off the New Testament gospel.

Labels do not mean that much to me. Just examining what you teach is sufficient reason for me to utterly reject your doctrine.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
Do you really want me to point out how many persons you have killed in war as the
church bells sent literally millions to be sacrificed on the alter of war? how many
paedophiles have come from the ranks of both catholics and protestants? how many
persons your brother Calvin burned alive, shall we go to town on your form of
worship? shall we ...[text shortened]... icating from your chair about what is good and proper, you are as a whole
thoroughly shameful.

============================================
Do you really want me to point out how many persons you have killed in war as the church bells sent literally millions to be sacrificed on the alter of war? how many paedophiles have come from the ranks of both catholics and protestants? how many persons your brother Calvin burned alive, shall we go to town on your form of worship? shall we? how demonic do you think such acts are? even if our doctrines are wrong we pale into insignificance with the demonic and satanic acts of the so called Christian churches, how many persons have we persecuted in comparison to you? women and little children the churches of Christendom have persecuted and here you are pontificating from your chair about what is good and proper, you are as a whole thoroughly shameful.
=====================================

So that gives you an excuse to teach that Michael the angel is the Savior and Son of God ?

You are bribing your conscience.

You are reasoning that you will appease your conscience in the error of denying the incarnation by doing something ELSE good. "At least we didn't kill these people."

You put your trust in coming before God and claiming that the crimes of Christiandom were not the crimes of Jehovah's Witnesses. Therefore you feel justified in denying that the Word was God.

"No God, we did not teach what was in your Book. BUT we have this other good thing over here that we DID do instead. We did not have a Spanish Inquisition."

Do you think this kind of rational will replace the need for the redemptive blood of Christ ? Do you think this will be a good excuse for sending untold multitudes to eternal punishment because you indoctrinated them not to believe that the Word Who was God became flesh ?

While you are enumerating the people I supposedly killed you can list the lives your organization has ruined with your shunning, denying medical treatment, and causing mental problems with you brainwashing.

The people I supposedly killed is not an excuse for you to deny that Christ is the Lord. It won't work before the throne of Jehovah.

Originally posted by galveston75
So you accuse us of not reading your post which I do everyone of them by the way, and it's clear you don't read ours. You I believe attacked us that going door to door is not anything Jesus said to do. We answered that so clearly and yet you show us this video? Your not listening at all are you?

Why then did you just ignore this post, which responded to one
of your posts?

According to John 1:1 the Son, called the Word, was with God in the
beginning and the Son was also God. Since the Son was in the
beginning before anything was created He could not have been created.
And the Holy Bible also says that the Son created all things and there
was not anything that was created that He did not create. So by
logical reasoning He could not have been one of the things He created
and since it says nothing was created that He did not create, the Son
of God could not be a created being.

I have also explained what Greek scholars say about the word translated
"first-born" in several places mean. But you ignore that too, and insist that
it means "first created", which there is no evidence to support such a
meaning. All the evidence points to Him as "superior" to all things or
"heir" to all things. So depending on the context the word is best
translated as either "superior" or "heir" and definitely not "first created".

Originally posted by RJHinds
Why then did you just ignore this post, which responded to one
of your posts?

According to John 1:1 the Son, called the Word, was with God in the
beginning and the Son was also God. Since the Son was in the
beginning before anything was created He could not have been created.
And the Holy Bible also says that the Son created all things and there
est
translated as either "superior" or "heir" and definitely not "first created".

He will probably come back at you with Proverbs.

As for myself, inasmuch as Christ was incarnated He did cloth Himself in creation. The Word became flesh. And flesh is an item of God's creation.

God became a man. And man is a creation of God. I am sure you agree with this for this is the truth of incarnation.

Christ is the Creator as well as the creature because incarnation insists that the Eternal uncreated God was found clothed in His own creation.

You see, the JWs that I talk to seem never to understand this - By saying that Christ is God we are not saying that Christ was not also a man. And no one can deny that "God created man" .

I never let them push me into saying that Christ is not a part of creation in view of His incarnation "And the Word became flesh and tabernacled among us." (John 1:14)

He may go now to Proverbs 8:22 which in my Bible reads "Jehovah possesssed me in the beginning of His way, Before His works of old ..."

They use this passage to teach Christ as Wisdom was created first of all things created. However, the passage in my translation simply says Jehovah POSSESSED this Wisdom.

Since the Wisdom of Jehovah surely existed as long as Jehovah did this verse cannot mean that God created Wisdom (Christ) before the universe.

How would Jehovah HAVE the wisdom to create Wisdom if His Wisdom did not already exist ?

The Wisdom of Jehovah is with Jehovah and is Jehovah as the Word was with God and the Word was God.

Amen.

Originally posted by galveston75
I believe the deaths in wars from Witnesses is....................."0"
How many guns have our elders blessed with Holy Water? ...."0"
How many have we put to death because of their beliefs?......."0"

Should I go on Robbie? I hope they get the point here as no TRUE CHRISTIAN would kill anyone much less a fellow believer.

I just noticed how many times RJ changes the subject here. I know most of my questions he is avoiding.

this is probably the one thing I am in agreement with the JW's on. I think no Christian should be involved in acts of war, whether fighting or supporting.