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11 Mar 16
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Originally posted by divegeesterThe fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom. Yes I recognise this principle and I'm sure you mean well. However, I see absolutely no correlation whatsoever with that parental diciplinarian aspect to God and your utterly barbaric and morally preposterous 'eternal suffering' ideology which I see as a stumbling block to the lost and sleight on the very nature of Christ.
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My response will attempt to move the discussion toward the topic of "The Invisible Presence of Jesus".
I want here to talk about how Jesus trained His disciples for that forty day period. This training prepared them to be so very established as the first Christians. Latter Christians need to be recovered back to their ingrained realization.
Jesus is actually with us. As only a man He could not be this way. But as God-man it is possible. His omnipresence and indwelling, though not now to our sight, is something to take very seriously.
The fear motivation persuasion of men, that Paul spoke to here -
"Knowing therefore the fear of the Lord, we persuade men, ..."
Includes persuading men to allow the Jesus Who has come to live in them, to transform them into His own image for His coming kingdom. "If you wish to be with Jesus, you better take seriously your need to be like Jesus."
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11 Mar 16
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Divegeester,
Paul and partner workers were on this road of transformation. That is why that passage continues as it does.
"Knowing therefore the fear of the Lord, we persuade men, but we are made manifest to God, yet I hope that we are made manifest also in your consciences."
In other words, "We cannot fool God at all. God knows exactly what we are. And we hope that in your conscience you also realize that what we preach we actually also live. Our living and our message are the same."
They got this way through transformation. And they persuade men to both be saved and to be transformed into the image of Christ. The persuasion reminds us of his "teaching and admonishing every man" in Colossians 1:28.
"[Christ] Whom we announce, admonishing every man and teaching every man in all wisdom that we may present every man full-grown in Christ.
For which also I labor, struggling according to His operation which operates in me in power." (Col. 1:28,29)
This reveals Paul's understanding of Christ's disciplinary work over those for whom Christ is in them as the hope of salvation.
"To whom God willed to make known what are the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles, which is Christ in your, the hope of salvation.
Whom we announce, admonishing every man and teaching every man ... that we may present every man full-grown in Christ."
This is a fear of children not growing and is "parental" as you say.
That is they desire the spiritual growth of the children, and even that they would be finally "full-grown".
However there is a retribution of punishment towards unbelievers which is not corrective.
It is simply - punishment.
That's the matter which you don't like.
And this induces a fear of the vengeance of God upon man who will not be reconciled to God.
" ...the revelation of the Lord Jesus from heaven with the angels of His power, in flaming fire,
Rendering vengeance to those who do not know God and to those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ.
They will pay the penalty of eternal destruction from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His strength
When He comes to be glorified in His saints and to be marveled at in all those who have believed ... " (2 Thess. 1:7b-10a)
My focus in this thread is with this latter group. That is the one in whom Christ lives within them as "the hope of glory". And the invisible Christ within them will one day be manifested and "marveled at" in them at His second coming. His invisible presence in them during the church age, benefits them when that age comes to a conclusion and the next millennial kingdom age commences.
12 Mar 16
2 edits
Originally posted by sonshipAnd herein lies the root of the error and your subsequent fixation and adherence to the most horrible act of terrorism ever conceived by mankind.
Divegeester...
"....there is a retribution of punishment towards unbelievers which is not corrective. It is simply - punishment"
13 Mar 16
Originally posted by Proper KnobI believe this post is on the spirituality. Secondly this post is for people who believe in God. Why don't you read and learn. I am certain you can get to know more on christianity. Thirdly, I advice you to read Ephesians 6: 10-18. This will make you understand posts like these. Good work sonship!
What do you hope to achieve by posting these theological monologues on a chess forum sonship?
13 Mar 16
Originally posted by Tshotsho KhalapaProper Knob is not a person who "believes in God", but I am.
I believe this post is on the spirituality. Secondly this post is for people who believe in God. Why don't you read and learn. I am certain you can get to know more on christianity. Thirdly, I advice you to read Ephesians 6: 10-18. This will make you understand posts like these. Good work sonship!
So can you tell please me, succinctly and prcisely, what the key points and exegesis of sonship's posts here are/is?
thanks
13 Mar 16
Originally posted by Proper KnobI totally agree with Suzianne. Ley us focus on the topic, you have made your point and everyone understand it. Now allow sonship to continue. This is a great post, and it will enlighten many christians, myself included.
You of all people complaining about people complaining is bizarre in the extreme. You're the biggest saggy winge bag I've ever come across on my internet travels.
13 Mar 16
Originally posted by Proper KnobYou are compleyely wrong to say sonship does not contribute financially to RHP. The fact is any member of RHP contribute financially to the webside. The members who are subscribing indeed they are contributing more.
I'm sorry sonship but I can post in whatever thread and forum I like. I am after all a playng member of this website and have been for numerous years, if I recall correctly you have never contributed to this website financially. That you think who can dictate what threads I post in is the night of arrogance and egotism.
13 Mar 16
1 edit
Originally posted by Tshotsho KhalapaYou seem to be drawing so much from sonship's posts in this thread so I repeat my question to you; can you tell please me, succinctly and precisely, what the key points and exegesis of sonship's posts here are?
You are compleyely wrong to say sonship does not contribute financially to RHP. The fact is any member of RHP contribute financially to the webside. The members who are subscribing indeed they are contributing more.
Thanks
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13 Mar 16
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Jesus spoke to His disciples about Him coming to them in another form, as the Spirit of reality.
"And I will ask the Father, and He will give you another Comforter, that He may be with you forever,
Even the Spirit of reality, WHOM THE WORLD CANNOT RECEIVE, because it does not behold Him or know Him; but you know Him, because He abides with you and shall be in you.
I will not leave you as orphans; I am coming to you.
Yet a little while and the world beholds Me no longer, but you behold Me; because I live, you also shall live." (John 14:16-19)
1.) The term "another Comforter" implies that there was a previous "Comforter".
2.) The "another Comforter" is the previous Comforter in "another" form.
3.) The Spirit of reality is the "another Comforter" .
4.) The world cannot "behold" this Spirit of reality - "another Comforter" .
He is invisible to the physical sight of the world.
5.) The disciples of Jesus will "behold" this unseen "Spirit of reality" and be comforted by this "another Comforter". A comfort that the world cannot give and the world cannot take away belongs to the believers in Christ.
6.) Jesus says this "another Comforther" is at that moment "with" the disciples. But shortly He will be "in" the disciples.
This means that Jesus as the first Comforter, traveling around with them for three and a half years is 'WITH" them. But soon after His death and resurrection He will transfer to a DEEPER relationship with them. He will be "IN" them.
" ... the Spirit of reality ... you know Him, because He abides with you and shall be in you." (v.17)
The Jesus who was with them as the first Comforter, will soon be in them as "another Comforter" - the "Spirit of reality". Jesus can come into people as the Spirit of reality - the Spirit of truth.
He abode with them. He will soon abide in them.
7.) The "He" who abides with the disciples in verse 17 suddenly becomes the "I" Who is coming to the disciples in verse 18.
" .... He abides with you and shall be in you. I will not leave you as orphans; I am coming to you."
8.) This does not refer to Jesus coming at the end of the age in His second coming. It refers to Jesus coming to indwell the disciples in another form as "the Spirit of reality" after His resurrection.
He - the Spirit of reality - abides with you. He shall be IN you. Jesus will not leave His believers as orphans. Jesus is coming to them. Jesus is coming to indwell them. Jesus is coming into their innermost spirit as a comforting Holy Spirit. This Holy Spirit the world cannot see.
Jesus prepares the disciples here for His unseen yet totally real presence.
14 Mar 16
Originally posted by Tshotsho KhalapaYou replied to a post asking a question but failed to answer it.
1. I believe this post is on the spirituality.
2. Secondly this post is for people who believe in God.
3. Why don't you read and learn.
4. I am certain you can get to know more on christianity.
5. Thirdly, I advice you to read Ephesians 6: 10-18. This will make you understand posts like these.
6. Good work sonship!
Why is that?
Why does sonship post theological monologues on a chess forum?
And in direct response to your post:
1. Your belief that this post is "on" spirituality is correct. (Well done!) (1 point)
2. The OP does not say that. Are you psychic? (0 point)
3. I think he has, can you prove otherwise? (0 point)
4. Probably we all can though it's a waste of beer drinking time. (1 point)
5. So much wrong with this! 😞 ( -1 point)
6. sycophant (-1 point)
Your final score is ZERO
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14 Mar 16
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This is what sets Jesus Christ apart from all other teachers and great figures of human history. Because He is God-man, God universalized this Man so that after His resurrection He could continue to live forever within the innermost spiritual beings of forgiven sinners.
Here Jesus says that His coming to man this way is "EXPEDIENT" for them to be in this new relationship with Him. They were sad that He said He was going away (as to the physical). But they should be joyful that Jesus will facilitate a more "expedient" relationship of INDWELLING believers, to live IN them.
" But now I am going to Him who sent Me; and none of you asks Me, Where are You going ?
But because I have spoken these things to you, sorrow has filled your heart.
But I tell you the truth, It is expedient for you that I go away; for if I do not go away, the Comforter will not come to you; but if I go, I will send Him to you." (John 16:5-7)
Prayer: "Lord Jesus. It is expedient for us that we can now, in 2016, receive You into our innermost spirit. We can receive You, Lord, into our hearts in truth.
Lord Jesus, cleanse me of all my sins and come into my heart. Thankyou for this new and expedient manner in which I can know You, Lord Jesus."
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14 Mar 16
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So Jesus tells the sorrowing disciples that He goes to send. And He goes not leaving them orphans. But He Himself is coming to them in another form, as "another Comforter". And it expedient for them that this new relationship be established.
This Holy Spirit will also convict the sinners of the world of things pertaining to God.
" But I tell you the truth, It is expedient for you that I go away; for if I do not go away, the Comforter will not come to you, but if I go I will send Him to you.
And when He comes, He will convict the world concerning sin and concerning righteousness and concerning judgment;
Concerning sin, because they do not believe in Me;
And concerning righteousness, because I am going to the Father and you no longer behold Me;
And concerning judgment, because the ruler of this world has been judged." (John 16:7-11)
I still do not yet fully understand this passage. I am so glad the Apostle John recorded these things.