The Moral Argument for God's Existence

@fmf said
Of course. That's why all your assertions about 'everlasting life' and being 'forgiven' and 'saved' and Jesus rising from the dead and a 'Lake of Fire' and all the rest of it are your subjective opinions and do not have much to do with "objective" facts. Like you say, the "truth" with regard to these supernatural phenomena ~ whatever it is ~ doesn't have anything to do with how strongly or sincerely we believe the things we believe. So,once again, we are in agreement.

If God is saving those around you and you are missing it, that is the reality you are
missing, because all you think it is going on is a difference of opinion.

@kellyjay said
If God is saving those around you and you are missing it, that is the reality you are
missing, because all you think it is going on is a difference of opinion.

Conversely, if God 'isn't' saving those around us, we are missing nothing. (And 'that' is the reality).

If a deserted island exists in an ocean, our opinions about its existence will have no bearing on whether or not it exists. But in the same vein, if a deserted island 'doesn't actually exist,' then again, our opinions about its existence will have no bearing on its non-existence.

God is a non-existent desert island. All the faith in the world won't change that.

@wolfgang59 said
Logic doesn't 'go'.

There is no logic to moral relativism, merely personal preference.

@ghost-of-a-duke said
Conversely, if God 'isn't' saving those around us, we are missing nothing. (And 'that' is the reality).

If a deserted island exists in an ocean, our opinions about its existence will have no bearing on whether or not it exists. But in the same vein, if a deserted island 'doesn't actually exist,' then again, our opinions about its existence will have no bearing on ...[text shortened]... non-existence.

God is a non-existent desert island. All the faith in the world won't change that.

Faith doesn’t change things it simply accepts what it cannot prove. Reality is, no faith required. We all walk in faith even if we think we are simply going along walking in our knowledge of knowing what we think we know. 😉

@kellyjay said
Faith doesn’t change things it simply accepts what it cannot prove. Reality is, no faith required. We all walk in faith even if we think we are simply going along walking in our knowledge of knowing what we think we know. 😉

Are you happy accepting something you cannot prove?

@dj2becker said
It would be interesting to see you say that slavery is always wrong for everyone and then claim there are no moral absolutes in the same breath.

The point you disingenuously continue to ignore is the fact that your interpretation of the Bible is VERY subjective. This is underscored by the fact that you are unable to provide an objective standard for interpretation of the Bible,

The Bible very widely open to interpretation. Over the centuries Christians have been on completely opposite sides as to topics such as slavery, capital punishment, race, women, LGBT, etc. The list goes on and on. People interpret the Bible based on their own subjective standard.

Your interpretation of the Bible is VERY subjective. You have no objective standard for interpretation of the Bible. As such, you have no objective moral standard. Likewise the Bible does not provide an objective moral standard.

@ghost-of-a-duke said
Are you happy accepting something you cannot prove?

You do whenever you speak about the distant past or the origin of life. We all walk out our lives believing the things we think are true are.

Those that are putting their faith in science do so believing that the answers people come up with there are valid and reliable. If they didn’t believe that they would look elsewhere.

Did you watch that link so I would read yours?

@thinkofone said
The point you disingenuously continue to ignore is the fact that your interpretation of the Bible is VERY subjective. This is underscored by the fact that you are unable to provide an objective standard for interpretation of the Bible,

The Bible very widely open to interpretation. Over the centuries Christians have been on completely opposite sides as to topics such as ...[text shortened]... u have no objective moral standard. Likewise the Bible does not provide an objective moral standard.

Do you believe slavery is always bad? Yes or No? I believe it is and I'm sure you actually agree with me even if you don't have the balls to admit it. (It wouldn't be if there were not moral absolutes) Anyone who tries to use the Bible to justify slavery is deluded and we both know it.

@dj2becker said
Do you believe slavery is always bad? Yes or No? I believe it is and I'm sure you actually agree with me even if you don't have the balls to admit it. (It wouldn't be if there were not moral absolutes) Anyone who tries to use the Bible to justify slavery is deluded and we both know it.

Your interpretation of the Bible is VERY subjective. You have no objective standard for interpretation of the Bible. As such, you have no objective moral standard. Likewise the Bible does not provide an objective moral standard.

Christians such as you delude themselves into believing that the Bible gives them an objective moral standard. It does not.

You can't logically refute this, so all you can do is disingenuously continue to try to talk around this fact.

@thinkofone said
Your interpretation of the Bible is VERY subjective. You have no objective standard for interpretation of the Bible. As such, you have no objective moral standard. Likewise the Bible does not provide an objective moral standard.

Christians such as you delude themselves into believing that the Bible gives them an objective moral standard. It does not.

You can't logically refute this, so all you can do is disingenuously continue to try to talk around this fact.

If it is possible for a jury to interpret the laws of a country in a fair (objective) manner why is it not possible to interpret the Bible in the same way?

Let's start at the beginning: If I were to interpret Genesis 1:1 to mean exactly what it says, how would my interpretation of Genesis 1:1 be VERY subjective?

@dj2becker said
If it is possible for a jury to interpret the laws of a country in a fair (objective) manner why is it not possible to interpret the Bible in the same way?

Juries do not interpret laws.
Judges do.
They do their best to be impartial (objective).
But inevitably sometimes fail

@wolfgang59 said
Juries do not interpret laws.
Judges do.
They do their best to be impartial (objective).
But inevitably sometimes fail

The point is they don't always fail. Some people also fail in interpreting some parts of the Bible correctly when they take verses out of context and don't take the whole Bible into account.

@dj2becker said
The point is they don't always fail. Some people also fail in interpreting some parts of the Bible correctly when they take verses out of context and don't take the whole Bible into account.

It happens a lot here they have a text about God’s nature and judging the rest of the scriptures by that, if they fail to take into account all scriptures about God’s nature so they end up with a perversion that’s not true. It is no different with salvation they take in their pet verses leaving out the rest, they in up with a perversion that is not truth.

@ghost-of-a-duke said
Are you happy accepting something you cannot prove?

Faith is what we all walk out daily.