The Moral Argument for God's Existence

@sonship said

Let's see if we can get at least one thing established.

You care?
Or you don't care?

Which is it, before I labor on some reply to analyze your question.

Its of a concern to you or it is of no concern to you?
Which ?

Some of the problems I have had here is further pursuing talk with posters who obviously don't want to be bothered with reaso ...[text shortened]... you alone.

That means I'll just stop reading anything further you have to write on the subjects.

GoaD is a troll. He's been a troll pretty much since he started posting on this forum. What lead you to think otherwise?

As a troll, GoaD seeks to wind you up and see how long he can keep you going. It's what trolls do.

@thinkofone said
GoaD is a troll. He's been a troll pretty much since he started posting on this forum. What lead you to think otherwise?

As a troll, GoaD seeks to wind you up and see how long he can keep you going. It's what trolls do.

Yes yes sir, but when Jesus said he was sent by God, was he?

@sonship said

Let's see if we can get at least one thing established.

You care?
Or you don't care?

Which is it, before I labor on some reply to analyze your question.

Its of a concern to you or it is of no concern to you?
Which ?

Some of the problems I have had here is further pursuing talk with posters who obviously don't want to be bothered with reaso ...[text shortened]... you alone.

That means I'll just stop reading anything further you have to write on the subjects.

I said to you previously sonship that I had no interest in communicating with you any further (following your weak post about understanding why Becker would repeatedly use such extreme examples about babies being tortured for fun etc to get his point across). Perhaps you missed that?

Shortly after telling you that you vanished from the site for a few weeks and upon your reappearance started responded directly to some of my posts. I ignored the first couple and then decided to reply to you. - As is usually the case with you however, you soon resort to petulant insults when challenged about your flippant approach to serious topics, this time calling me a leper with bad alcohol breath and the like. (Before offering a half apology).

So in short, please feel free to ignore my posts and I'll happily reciprocate. I do find your particular brand of Christianity full of holes and intolerance.

@thinkofone said
If you are not arguing that there are no moral absolutes based on the fact that there is no objective standard for interpreting the Bible, what on earth are you on about?

Becker asks this despite the fact that I included what I'm "on about" in the very post to which he was responding and despite that fact it's already been answered many times already.

We've all seen this movie time and time again.

Do you believe in the existence of moral absolutes? Yes or No?

I imagine your pride and or intellectual integrity will get in the way of you answering this question. Yet again.

@dj2becker said
Do you believe in the existence of moral absolutes? Yes or No?

I imagine your pride and or intellectual integrity will get in the way of you answering this question. Yet again.

No matter how many red herrings you toss out. No matter how many times you pretend to not know what I've been "on about". No matter how many straw man arguments you make. No matter how many times you "start from the beginning". No matter how many times you talk around it...

If you don't have an objective standard for interpretation of the Bible, then the Bible does not provide you an objective moral standard.

The Bible is very widely open to interpretation. Over the centuries Christians have been on completely opposite sides as to topics such as slavery, capital punishment, race, women, LGBT, etc. The list goes on and on. People interpret the Bible based on their own subjective standard.

Your interpretation of the Bible is subjective. You have no objective standard for interpretation of the Bible, therefore the Bible does not provide you with an objective moral standard.

@thinkofone said
No matter how many red herrings you toss out. No matter how many times you pretend to not know what I've been "on about". No matter how many straw man arguments you make. No matter how many times you "start from the beginning". No matter how many times you talk around it...

If you don't have an objective standard for interpretation of the Bible, then the Bible does not ...[text shortened]... erpretation of the Bible, therefore the Bible does not provide you with an objective moral standard.

There is a lot of things the Bible doesn’t provide you, if God isn’t in your life.

@kellyjay said
There is a lot of things the Bible doesn’t provide you, if God isn’t in your life.

What exactly do you have in mind here?

This sounds like a typical self-serving Christian platitude: They have God in their life. They are being guided by the Holy Spirit. As such they interpret the Bible correctly. Those who do not interpret the Bible the same as they do therefore do not have "God...in [their] life". Such a self-serving platitude helps them to reaffirm their own self-righteousness to themselves.

@ThinkOfOne

Such a self-serving platitude helps them to reaffirm their own self-righteousness to themselves.

Is that a bad thing?

If so according to what standard ?
Just your personal taste?

@thinkofone said
What exactly do you have in mind here?

This sounds like a typical self-serving Christian platitude: They have God in their life. They are being guided by the Holy Spirit. As such they interpret the Bible correctly. Those who do not interpret the Bible the same as they do therefore do not have "God...in [their] life". Such a self-serving platitude helps them to reaffirm their own self-righteousness to themselves.

For someone who is stumped by this question:

"Jesus said he was sent by God, was he correct?"

How do you think you understand the spiritual truths in scripture when this escapes you?

@sonship said
@ThinkOfOne

Such a self-serving platitude helps them to reaffirm their own self-righteousness to themselves.

Is that a bad thing?

If so according to what standard ?
Just your personal taste?

Think about it jaywill.

Let's say that there are two Christians with differing interpretations of the Bible and each of whom believe as follows:
They have God in their life. They are being guided by the Holy Spirit. As such they interpret the Bible correctly. Those who do not interpret the Bible the same as they do therefore do not have "God...in [their] life".

As a result each smugly comes away believing that their own interpretation is correct and that the other does not have "God...in [their] life".

As a result each has only succeeded in reaffirming their own self-righteousness to themselves.

What's more, they may BOTH be incorrect.

Do you still not understand the fallacy?

@thinkofone said
What exactly do you have in mind here?

This sounds like a typical self-serving Christian platitude: They have God in their life. They are being guided by the Holy Spirit. As such they interpret the Bible correctly. Those who do not interpret the Bible the same as they do therefore do not have "God...in [their] life". Such a self-serving platitude helps them to reaffirm their own self-righteousness to themselves.

I said nothing about interpreting the Bible like I do, I said you need God in your
life. Pay attention to the points people make to you, don't just assume you know
what they mean and interpret their conversation to suit your assumptions.

Jesus told Nicodemus that there were earthly and heavenly truths, and even when
Jesus shared earthly things with him, he wasn't grasping what was being shared.

John 3:11-13 English Standard Version (ESV)
11 Truly, truly, I say to you, we speak of what we know, and bear witness to what we have seen, but you do not receive our testimony. 12 If I have told you earthly things and you do not believe, how can you believe if I tell you heavenly things? 13 No one has ascended into heaven except he who descended from heaven, the Son of Man.

Paul writes about earthly and Spiritual truth too.

1 Corinthians 2:
6 Yet among the mature we do impart wisdom, although it is not a wisdom of this age or of the rulers of this age, who are doomed to pass away. 7 But we impart a secret and hidden wisdom of God, which God decreed before the ages for our glory. 8 None of the rulers of this age understood this, for if they had, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory. 9 But, as it is written,

“What no eye has seen, nor ear heard,
nor the heart of man imagined,
what God has prepared for those who love him”—

10 these things God has revealed to us through the Spirit. For the Spirit searches everything, even the depths of God. 11 For who knows a person's thoughts except the spirit of that person, which is in him? So also no one comprehends the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God. 12 Now we have received not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, that we might understand the things freely given us by God. 13 And we impart this in words not taught by human wisdom but taught by the Spirit, interpreting spiritual truths to those who are spiritual.
14 The natural person does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are folly to him, and he is not able to understand them because they are spiritually discerned. 15 The spiritual person judges all things, but is himself to be judged by no one. 16 “For who has understood the mind of the Lord so as to instruct him?” But we have the mind of Christ.

@kellyjay said
I said nothing about interpreting the Bible like I do, I said you need God in your
life. Pay attention to the points people make to you, don't just assume you know
what they mean and interpret their conversation to suit your assumptions.

Jesus told Nicodemus that there were earthly and heavenly truths, and even when
Jesus shared earthly things with him, he wasn't grasp ...[text shortened]... “For who has understood the mind of the Lord so as to instruct him?” But we have the mind of Christ.

I said nothing about interpreting the Bible like I do, I said you need God in your
life.

The post to which you responded was about about interpreting the Bible.

Evidently now you're saying that your self-serving Christian platitude had nothing to do with my post. Go figure.

I'll revise what seemed like a logical assumption to fit what you've written here:
This sounds like a typical self-serving Christian platitude: They have God in their life. They are being guided by the Holy Spirit. As such they grasp "earthly and heavenly truths". Those who do not grasp "earthly and heavenly truths" the same as they do therefore do not have "God...in [their] life". Such a self-serving platitude helps them to reaffirm their own self-righteousness to themselves.

@thinkofone said
I said nothing about interpreting the Bible like I do, I said you need God in your
life.

The post to which you responded was about about interpreting the Bible.

Evidently now you're saying that your self-serving Christian platitude had nothing to do with my post. Go figure.

I'll revise what seemed like a logical assumption to fit what you've written her ...[text shortened]... e". Such a self-serving platitude helps them to reaffirm their own self-righteousness to themselves.

You do have a difficult time grasping what others are saying to you don't you?
This is twice now I told you that God in your life is required to understand God's
word, because the things of God can only be grasped by the Spirit of God. You
keep going on and on about proper interpretation as if that is possible with the
natural man. It does seem like that is all you got however, and you are even
hard pressed to acknowledge it too. Which is why again you refuse to answer
that question about what Jesus said.

@kellyjay said
You do have a difficult time grasping what others are saying to you don't you?
This is twice now I told you that God in your life is required to understand God's
word, because the things of God can only be grasped by the Spirit of God. You
keep going on and on about proper interpretation as if that is possible with the
natural man. It does seem like that is all you got h ...[text shortened]... to acknowledge it too. Which is why again you refuse to answer
that question about what Jesus said.

I understand you all too well KJ.

Why are you telling me this if you don't believe that you ""understand God's
word" and that I don't? Just a random thought that popped into your head that had absolutely nothing to do with the post to which you originally responded?

@thinkofone said
I understand you all too well KJ.

Why are you telling me this if you don't believe that you ""understand God's
word" and that I don't? Just a random thought that popped into your head that had absolutely nothing to do with the post to which you originally responded?

I'm sure you think so, but again you cannot handle the question about what Jesus
said about His Father, why would you think you grasp the rest of scripture? I go to
the Word prayerfully, as anyone should. It is the Word of God and we are sinners,
we do need God's help which He is willing to give.

You should really just look at those things actually said to you instead of trying to
figure out motivations. Your are trying to figure out why people are saying things
when instead you should just read what was written.