18 Dec 08
1 edit
Originally posted by black beetlelol, beetle dude, gies a hand a we shall take a cup o kindness yet! the same spirit which permeates all living things, that which animates life, that which makes the rivers to run, the crow to fly, this is the source of the truth, this it was that in an outstandingly remarkable way, brought men from different epochs of time, over a period of three thousand years, to record these truths, even though they themselves did not readily understand them, and presented it in the form of a written record, so that subsequent generations may also partake of the source, it has in one form or another been made available to the majority of mankind, is it not quite remarkable?
Oh robbie my trusty feer, I had the feeling that the scripture you are talking about it derived from another, more ancient scriptures;
So, in your opinion, how come such a scripture evolved just out of the blue, and it is full of "many truths" which all of them were unknown to the people before the compilation of the scripture?
What is this scripture afterall, which it shines solely thanks to its Source?
Robbie
everything holy
😵
now beetle can i ask you in all seriousness, for you know more of philosophy than i, is there a school of thought that states that it is impossible to know truth without reference to the divine, for sure i read this somewhere, it is not of my own originality, but i cannot place it? or perhaps there is a school of thought which states the opposite, that knowledge of the divine is a hindrance to finding accurate truth, i dunno, its just interesting to me.
18 Dec 08
Originally posted by robbie carrobieBut if the fractals of the so called Truth were there for everybody to see them, and if all of a sudden at a given period of time the Human started to be aware of each quality of this Truth, this Truth has to the result of his philosophy and his differ social contracts in total;
lol, beetle dude, gies a hand a we shall take a cup o kindness yet! the same spirit which permeates all living things, that which animates life, that which makes the rivers to run, the crow to fly, this is the source of the truth, this it was that in an outstandingly remarkable way, brought men from different epochs of time, over a period of three t ...[text shortened]... dge of the divine is a hindrance to finding accurate truth, i dunno, its just interesting to me.
Furthermore his philosophy was striclty related with his need to live succesfully within a society, and this is the reason why the so called Truth to which you refer to is a compilation of Laws penetrating and adjusting the morality and the actions of a specific society;
So anyway tt seems to me that by the reefs of the philosophy each society through time felt the urgence to explain whatever takes place on Earth by theological means because it is always easier to say "god did it" instead of breaking your head to find out what you know and what you ignore, whilst on the other hand it was vital for the society to control its members under a specific flag;
So, regarding the reason behing the birth of the scripture, Nothing Holy😵
Regarding your second question robbie, I only know that many philosophies are related to the metaphysics. I only know that every individual is a philosopher and that some individuals are not as good philosophers as some other.
It is my knowledge that the real Way is unconceivable for it cannot be expressed through words, and that therefore thinking alone is not enough. But thinking is still essential, and we need every bit of our intuition and of our spirit and of our rest powers in order to avoid our delusions. This is the reason why I insist that the scriptures are meaningless. The individual who understands his nature is able to find the Way even when he is unable to read. The individual who understands his nature is free to follow not nobody, and he is enabled to act this way thanks to the evaluation of the mind alone
Nothing Holy
😵
18 Dec 08
God gave us these remarkable brains; I'm certain he intends for us to use them. And Einstein was right when he said the most important thing is to never stop questioning. Blind faith is something to be avoided. This is why where I see science and Christendom to be in synch. We are an inquisitive lot and as the first poster said, the more we learn, the more we find TO learn. God praised the Bereans for NOT following blindly--for doing research. I think Newton, Einstein, Fermi, Planck, Hawking, et. al. would have been excellent Bereans. 😉
19 Dec 08
2 edits
Originally posted by black beetleok beetle dude, does metaphysics not teach that everything has a common source? and that something cannot originate from nothing. therefore we must ask, from where did these truths originate if many of the recipients of the truths did not understand their relation to the whole? how is it possible that over an extensive period these truths were able to exist independently yet make a composite whole and were able to transcend race and religion and speak to beggars and kings, learned and unlearned alike, nay beetle dude, not only speak, but to influence and motivate, not by force or coercion, simply by their own nature and character.
But if the fractals of the so called Truth were there for everybody to see them, and if all of a sudden at a given period of time the Human started to be aware of each quality of this Truth, this Truth has to the result of his philosophy and his differ social contracts in total;
Furthermore his philosophy was striclty related with his need to live su d he is enabled to act this way thanks to the evaluation of the mind alone
Nothing Holy
😵
that they were in their infancy designed to create an environment conducive to the completion of truth is most excellently observed on your part, but once that which was complete arrived, that which was partial was done away with, and rather than having an inferior set of rules and regulations which governed every aspect of behavior and society, we now had but two laws based on love and many principles, thus the human conscience was enhanced by these and much more able to reflect virtuous and admiral qualities by its very nature. for i hold this, that when a set of rules is imposed which has a great many regulations and laws which govern every aspect of life, then the natural conscience is as a consequence stifled and suppressed is it not? but the conscience must be exercised, like a muscle, other wise it becomes weak and insensitive, and can guide no more than a mis aligned compass.
theism without reason is no theism at all, for just to say god did it, without providing a reason for why he did it is unreasonable and inconsistent. do you not however find it strange that almost every society has some concept of divinity, not merely for social order or as an explanation of external factors, but as an innate part of every person?
so many words beetle my friend, all i long for is some kind of mutual understanding if not agreement, but it pains me even yet, for i do understand the law of contradiction , in that the truth cannot exist between two variables, what say you?
kind regards to you and yours beetle
Robbie
everything holy.😵
19 Dec 08
Originally posted by robbie carrobieOh first things first!
ok beetle dude, does metaphysics not teach that everything has a common source? and that something cannot originate from nothing. therefore we must ask, from where did these truths originate if many of the recipients of the truths did not understand their relation to the whole? how is it possible that over an extensive period these truths were able ...[text shortened]... two variables, what say you?
kind regards to you and yours beetle
Robbie
everything holy.😵
In the very beginning the Human was aware of the invisible powers which were enabling him to live and to act -he could see that he was alive and kicking, coming into life seemingly thanks to a "miracle". And suddenly he could notice that, due to a clear or to an unclear reason, unfortunately one day he would be dead anyway.
At that point he concluded that there is an agent within the Human and within all the other animals and plants which is invisible and that, when this agent was fading away, the schema of the Human -the body-and the schemata of the other existences were useless because of death. This is clearly a result based on the evaluation of the mind of those times, a method which is ever used by the Human in order to enable him to understand his nature; without this method we could get nuffin, that is.
So it seems to me that the concept of the "religion" sprung from the following hypothesis: if the Human was ruled by an invisible agent, and the Human is able to rule his life and his society and our planet yet he remains so vulnerable, then Kosmos should be ruled by a similar invisible agent, an agent who consequently had to be by far more powerful and eternal and not at all vulnerable for It had to rule ad infinitum the Universe and everything within it, plus the invisible forces/ qualities that they enable the expression of Life as a whole.
In fact this Source you are trying to talk about is still unconceivable even by systems which are the most sophisticated among the philosophical and mystical and scientific ones. These philosophies are urging the student not to brake the barriers of the limits of the Human mind in front of the nature of this Scource at the time that It started evolving into "edges" (this is the stage of the point singularity at t=0, the stage before the first ever expression of Brahmin, the stage known as Ain at QBLH, the stage before the time at which your Christian "god" took the sheme of his existence etc). Otherwise, whenever the Human decides to brake the barrier at that point, he remains forever trapped into the dualism -for the schemata in our world as we understand them they are always expressed through opposite powers.
Therefore your so called "holy scripture" is based on a human invented "holy explanation" of the Origin of the Universe, as it merely attributes to your anthropomorphic "god" human powers multiplied ad infinitum (I assume that you are a Christian although I know not your denomination).
But unfortunately nothing (philosophically valuable) permits you to attribute such qualities to the pro point singularity "existence" for it is not at all an existence as a Human can understand it, thus the so called "holy scripture" of yours, your theology, is a human invention.
And, due to the fact that a human invention is anyway a human invention,
Nothing Holy😵
19 Dec 08
Originally posted by black beetleOh excuse me, I have to make a correction for I am just a Greek and not fluent in English. Correct is:
Oh first things first!
In the very beginning the Human was aware of the invisible powers which were enabling him to live and to act -he could see that he was alive and kicking, coming into life seemingly thanks to a "miracle". And suddenly he could notice that, due to a clear or to an unclear reason, unfortunately one day he would be dead anyway.
A ...[text shortened]... o the fact that a human invention is anyway a human invention,
Nothing Holy😵
"In fact this Source you are trying to talk about is still unconceivable even by systems which are the most sophisticated among the philosophical and mystical and scientific ones. These philosophies are urging the student not to brake the barriers of the limits of the Human mind in front of the nature of this Scource at the time that It started evolving into "edges" (this is the stage of the point singularity after t=0, the stage at the first ever expression of Brahmin, the stage known as Qeter at QBLH, the stage at the time at which your Christian "god" took the sheme of his existence etc). Otherwise, whenever the Human decides to brake the barrier at that point, he remains forever trapped into the dualism -for the schemata in our world as we understand them they are always expressed through opposite powers."
I am sorry for the inconvenience robbie dude :'(
Best regards to you and yours
😵
19 Dec 08
Originally posted by bill718I think this is why Francis Bacon said, "A little philosophy inclineth man's mind to atheism, but depth in philosophy bringeth men's minds about to religion."
It's interesting to me that the more one knows, the more they realize how much they don't know. It can be an amazing and humbling experience. 😏
19 Dec 08
Originally posted by epiphinehasFor, epi my bad,
I think this is why Francis Bacon said, "A little philosophy inclineth man's mind to atheism, but depth in philosophy bringeth men's minds about to religion."
You are aware of the fact that sir Bacon showed at his “Advancement” that the philosophical process stumbles onto three distempers: vain imaginations (pseudo-science), vain altercations (Aristotelian scholasticism in conjunction with theological principles, which leads to endless debates instead of promoting the Knowledge), and vain affectations (rhetoric that changes into sophism, ie solely empty meaningless words);
All of a sudden these three qualities make me think about the major poisons of the Human nature, which are avidity, rage and...
Delusion
😵
