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Originally posted by FMFWe've been through this before.
As ever you have absolutely no coherent argument to back up your assertion that torturing non-believers for eternity is either "perfect justice" or "ultimate morality". You have fallen for a grotesque ideology and you simply slap these nonsense labels on it.
What ever you propose as more "coherent" more "moral" more a matter of "perfect Justice" or less "grotesque" or less "nonsensical" I remain more impressed with the life, words and deeds of Jesus.
And since I met Jesus, I don't see how it is possible for your complaints to undo my experiences of Christ.
08 Jun 16
Sonship: That is a specific teaching from the mouth of Christ as to who man should be in fear of and for what reason.Presumably you have dodged my question with this generic platitude on purpose?
FMF: Jesus spoke about torturing billions upon billions of people [in a furnace] for eternity for a thoughtcrime?
Originally posted by sonship
To be remain unreconciled to God is a serious thing.
Don't you think, if his plan was to torture countless billions of people in burning agony for all eternity, he would have said something about it while he walked this earth?
08 Jun 16
Originally posted by sonshipYou being "impressed" doesn't make your beliefs about morality or justice coherent. You being "impressed" is not an argument or justification for the ideology you espouse.
We've been through this before.
What ever you propose as more "coherent" more "moral" more a matter of "perfect Justice" or less "grotesque" or less "nonsensical" I remain more impressed with the life, words and deeds of Jesus.
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08 Jun 16
Originally posted by FMFI don't know if you consider any reply to your rather loaded questions as a dodge.
Presumably you have dodged my question with this generic platitude on purpose?
Don't you think, if his plan was to torture countless billions of people in burning agony for all eternity, he would have said something about it while he walked this earth?
But to get to your real point -
No, I do not feel guilty for believing the New Testament.
08 Jun 16
Originally posted by sonshipI have no intention of undoing anything: just giving you feedback. The notion of "justice" you peddle is the ugliest thing mankind has ever come up with. If you were here promoting the "justice" of the complete extermination - in their millions - of some race or group of humans for something they think or believe, I'd be offering similar feedback, even if what you imagine to be "perfect justice" is immeasurable more depraved than any earthly genocide you might choose to extol the virtues of. You promote something in public. I give you feedback.
And since I met Jesus, I don't see how it is possible for your complaints to undo my experiences of Christ.
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08 Jun 16
Originally posted by FMFYou're the one who used the phraseology torturing billions of people.
Where did Jesus speak about torturing billions of people for eternity ~ out of anger and revenge ~ for thinking or not thinking something?
You introduced that kind of speaking.
Now in rank hypocrisy you ask me "Where is it ?"
If you weren't sure it is in the Bible then you shouldn't have been so eager to shove the words into my mouth.
08 Jun 16
Originally posted by sonshipWell? Is it dozens or people? Hundreds? Thousands? Was it wrong to extrapolate from the ideology you espouse that it applied to billions? Was it wrong to take you at your word that in your ideology their torture goes on for eternity?
You're the one who used the phraseology torturing billions of people.
You introduced that kind of speaking.
Now in rank hypocrisy you ask me "Where is it ?"
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I post this a second time in this thread here.
This teaching does not specify the temperature of hell, does not record the decibel level of hollering, and does not have all to nitty-gritty details cynical people FMF crave to capitalize on. It doesn't give us these kinds of minute descriptions. But it communicates an important aspect of our relationship with God.
Man has only so much he can do to punish. God should be feared because His power and authority extend beyond what man can do. Consequently, greater fear should be rendered to refusing forgiveness and justification from God.
" And I tell you My friends, Do not fear those who kill the body and afterwards have nothing more that they can do.
But I will show you whom you should fear: fear Him who, after killing, has authority to cast into Gehenna; yes, I tell you, fear this One." (Luke 12:4,5)
"Yes, I tell you .... Fear this One." This is a direct command and directive from the mouth of the Son of God.
It is an aspect of the truth we should know.
We also should know that God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son. Whosoever believes in Him should not perish but have eternal life. (see John 3:16)
08 Jun 16
Originally posted by sonshipIf you truly and sincerely think my criticism of your torture ideology is caused by me being "cynical", then I don't know how you could ever debate any issue pertaining to morality with seriousness. You're basically responding to the enormity of what is being discussed with the weakest or weak ad hominems as if you are completely oblivious to what is being said. To attempt to swat away principled scrutiny of your extraordinary claims by calling it "cynical" is about as cynical as cynical can get.
This teaching does not specify the temperature of hell, does not record the decibel level of hollering, and does not have all to nitty-gritty details cynical people FMF crave to capitalize on. It doesn't give us these kinds of minute descriptions.
08 Jun 16
Originally posted by FMFFor whatever reason, your disconnect lies in your misunderstanding of what justice means.
If you truly and sincerely think my criticism of your torture ideology is caused by me being "cynical", then I don't know how you could ever debate any issue pertaining to morality with seriousness. You're basically responding to the enormity of what is being discussed with the weakest or weak ad hominems as if you are completely oblivious to what is being said. ...[text shortened]... iny of your extraordinary claims by calling it "cynical" is about as cynical as cynical can get.
You compound the issue with hyperbole, but the crux of it lies in your ignorance of the concept.