21 Mar 07
Originally posted by knightmeisterSorry, ghost.
Then I wish you well on your journey of discovery. You may end up seeking anyway. If you honestly pursue truth and what is of value in this world with integrity and raw honesty then you will end up stumbling into God at some point even though you may not realise it when you do.
BTW What is a ghot?
Thanks for your thoughts. I won't stumble onto a god though, much as you might suggest it.
I have to be honest, my mind is closed to a god. It's not proof I desire, or 100% certainty - you're quite right, that would be foolish and pointless - rather, I can only live in a world where gods DO NOT exist.
Now of course, you'll point out that I lve in one where they do, I'll beg to differ and we'll get back to the endless circular arguments.
The reality for me is I don't want to exist in a world that might be governed by supernatural entities. And, given that it seems reasonable to me that I don't live in such a world, I deny any possibility of the existence of a god.
This is of course as much a dogmatic position as any religion - which I don't deny.
But, no matter how much I seek, I will never find god. My mind's closed on the matter.
Mind you, I am interested in religion and religious thought - not exactly sure why, it just fascinates me - hence my participation in some of these threads.
22 Mar 07
Originally posted by knightmeister"from God's perspective what the world does is insane."
What I mean is from the world's perspective Christianity is insane. But from God's perspective what the world does is insane. If you think that what happens out there is all fine and dandy then Christ will mean little to you. What seems sane to the world is potty to God.
Well, this is something else indeed!
You admit that God is not objectively provable and that there is only subjective evidence for his existence. You are not even 100% certain that your own experiential evidence is correct....and then you jump to the position of knowing what God's perspective is!
Pray tell, how can you possibly know this?
22 Mar 07
Originally posted by amannionMind you, I am interested in religion and religious thought - not exactly sure why, it just fascinates me - hence my participation in some of these threads.AMMANION
Sorry, ghost.
Thanks for your thoughts. I won't stumble onto a god though, much as you might suggest it.
I have to be honest, my mind is closed to a god. It's not proof I desire, or 100% certainty - you're quite right, that would be foolish and pointless - rather, I can only live in a world where gods DO NOT exist.
Now of course, you'll point out that I ...[text shortened]... tly sure why, it just fascinates me - hence my participation in some of these threads.
I think I know why but if I tell you it will spoil your journey. Go for it my friend and seek earnestly , I hope you find what you are looking for.
22 Mar 07
Originally posted by howardgeeWhy do you insist on being so pedantic? I could of course paraphrase everything I say with statement "in my personal opinion based on my faith" but that would be very tiring and cumbersome. I do not of course "know" what God thinks but then I do not "know" for 100% that I exist or that we are both dreaming this.
"from God's perspective what the world does is insane."
Well, this is something else indeed!
You admit that God is not objectively provable and that there is only subjective evidence for his existence. You are not even 100% certain that your own experiential evidence is correct....and then you jump to the position of knowing what God's perspective is!
Pray tell, how can you possibly know this?
22 Mar 07
Originally posted by knightmeisterIt is hardly pedantic.
Why do you insist on being so pedantic? I could of course paraphrase everything I say with statement "in my personal opinion based on my faith" but that would be very tiring and cumbersome. I do not of course "know" what God thinks but then I do not "know" for 100% that I exist or that we are both dreaming this.
You claim to know how the world looks to an entity whose existence you admit cannot be objectively proven.
Of course your claim is spurious.
It is yet another indication of how completely deluded you are.
22 Mar 07
1 edit
Originally posted by howardgeeI fail to see why. One may give whatever points of view one pleases to his fictional characters. If George Lucas can say that Darth Vader was drawn to the Dark Force because he was trying to save his girlfriend's life, I don't understand why knightmeister can't say "My God thinks X".
It is hardly pedantic.
You claim to know how the world looks to an entity whose existence you admit cannot be objectively proven.
Of course your claim is spurious.
It is yet another indication of how completely deluded you are.
22 Mar 07
Originally posted by no1marauderGranted, but I highly doubt that George Lucas would try to claim that Darth Vader is either (a) real, (b) the basis for all morality, or (c) attempt to force (or coerce) those views onto others.
I fail to see why. One may give whatever points of view one pleases to his fictional characters. If George Lucas can say that Darth Vader was drawn to the Dark Force because he was trying to save his girlfriend's life, I don't understand why knightmeister can't say "My God thinks X".
23 Mar 07
Originally posted by howardgeeAnd what would possibly give me any insight into how the world looks to God ? New Testament I wonder? Personal experience ? The fact that God himself visited us in person and told us exactly how the world looks to him? Which one shall I choose?
It is hardly pedantic.
You claim to know how the world looks to an entity whose existence you admit cannot be objectively proven.
Of course your claim is spurious.
It is yet another indication of how completely deluded you are.
Granted they are none of them objective proof but then I don't need objective proof , only you do.
I have no objective proof of the way my wife sees the world but I know how she does look at it. You may say that you could find out how she looks at the world scientifically but I bet you couldn't do it with out getting to know her.
Maybe I am deluded for thinking that the gentle , lowly , compassionate things of this world will be glorified whilst the loud , brash triumphant voices of this world will be silenced. Maybe love has no place in this world , but in that case I would sooner be deluded than sane.
23 Mar 07
Originally posted by knightmeister"The fact that God himself visited us in person and told us exactly how the world looks to him? "
And what would possibly give me any insight into how the world looks to God ? New Testament I wonder? Personal experience ? The fact that God himself visited us in person and told us exactly how the world looks to him? Which one shall I choose?
Granted they are none of them objective proof but then I don't need objective proof , only you do.
I ...[text shortened]... Maybe love has no place in this world , but in that case I would sooner be deluded than sane.
Well then, I look forward to seeing evidence of his visitation. Is it on television or YouTube?
Of course you have objective proof of the way your wife sees the world; she can see the same things as you can, and most other people can too. Clearly she must be a bit stupid as she has married a brain washed illogical moron like you.
24 Mar 07
Originally posted by howardgeeWell then, I look forward to seeing evidence of his visitation. Is it on television or YouTube? HOWARD
"The fact that God himself visited us in person and told us exactly how the world looks to him? "
Well then, I look forward to seeing evidence of his visitation. Is it on television or YouTube?
Of course you have objective proof of the way your wife sees the world; she can see the same things as you can, and most other people can too. Clearly she must be a bit stupid as she has married a brain washed illogical moron like you.
It was 2000 years ago , but apparently he is still hanging around.
24 Mar 07
Originally posted by howardgeeClearly she must be a bit stupid as she has married a brain washed illogical moron like you.HOWARDGEE
"The fact that God himself visited us in person and told us exactly how the world looks to him? "
Well then, I look forward to seeing evidence of his visitation. Is it on television or YouTube?
Of course you have objective proof of the way your wife sees the world; she can see the same things as you can, and most other people can too. Clearly she must be a bit stupid as she has married a brain washed illogical moron like you.
What do you think others will see when they read your words? People always resort to insult when they run out of argument. What happened to you Howard? Which nasty fundies did you come across to make you so angry?
26 Mar 07
Originally posted by knightmeisterI would think they agree with my sentiment, unless they are as brainwashed as you.
Clearly she must be a bit stupid as she has married a brain washed illogical moron like you.HOWARDGEE
What do you think others will see when they read your words? People always resort to insult when they run out of argument. What happened to you Howard? Which nasty fundies did you come across to make you so angry?
26 Mar 07
Originally posted by knightmeisterSo knightmeister, in your opinion, who tells the most lies and intentional distortions of the truth on these forums, theists or atheists?
Looking at the "Atheists!" thread got me thinking. Hearing how some Atheists had had religious parents caused me to speculate whether behind all this "rational" debate lies a lot of emotion and possible resentment.
There's a lot of "bashing" going on in this forum and one thing I find fascinating is the need we all have to ridicule an opposing opin ...[text shortened]... 'm bracing myself for fireworks....especially if I've hit the nail on the head)
I know that I believe in my position and that you probably believe in yours. But some theists appear to intentionally make claims that they know to be untrue in order to try to back up their position. I don't think I have noticed atheists doing that. That makes me think that atheists in general feel more secure in their position. Or is it possible that the theist position just cannot be backed up with facts?