Originally posted by sonshipCan't you get it through your thick head that the translation is correct when it says "not yet given" because it is a "given" that "given" shoud be added to the English translation to make sense of it.
That is not a strong argument for you because not all translators agree that [b]"given" is the word that HAS to be supplied there. ...[text shortened]... ng as we do "Receive the Holy Spirit" and continue to do so, we fulfill the will of God.[/b]
When the apostles in Jerusalem heard that Samaria had accepted the word of God, they sent Peter and John to Samaria. When they arrived, they prayed for the new believers there that they might receive the Holy Spirit, because the Holy Spirit had not yet come on any of them; they had simply been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. Then Peter and John placed their hands on them, and they received the Holy Spirit.
When Simon saw that the Spirit was given at the laying on of the apostles’ hands, he offered them money and said, “Give me also this ability so that everyone on whom I lay my hands may receive the Holy Spirit.”
Peter answered: “May your money perish with you, because you thought you could buy the gift of God with money! You have no part or share in this ministry, because your heart is not right before God. Repent of this wickedness and pray to the Lord in the hope that he may forgive you for having such a thought in your heart.
Acts 8:14-22 New International Version (NIV)
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Originally posted by RJHindsWhen the apostles in Jerusalem heard that Samaria had accepted the word of God, they sent Peter and John to Samaria. When they arrived, [b]they prayed for the new believers there that they might receive the Holy Spirit, because the Holy Spirit had not yet come on any of them; they had simply been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.Then Pet ...[text shortened]... having such a thought in your heart.[/b]
Acts 8:14-22 New International Version (NIV)[/b]Good verses. Thankyou.
But what is your point as related to John 7:39 and 1 Cor. 15:45 ?
Originally posted by sonshipThe point is that the phrase "the Holy Spirit was not Yet" does not mean that the Holy Spirit had not yet come into existence, but that it had not yet come on the believers, because the Holy Spirit had not yet been sent or given to all of them. The Holy Spirit has always existed.
Good verses. Thankyou.
But what is your point as related to [b]John 7:39 and 1 Cor. 15:45 ?[/b]
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Originally posted by RJHinds
The point is that the phrase "the Holy Spirit was not Yet" does not mean that the Holy Spirit had not yet come into existence, but that it had not yet come on the believers, because the Holy Spirit had not yet been sent or given to all of them. The Holy Spirit has always existed.
The specific passage of John 7:39 doesn't say "the Holy Spirit was not yet". It says "the Spirit was not yet, because Jesus had not yet been glorified."
By the time of both Pentecost and the house of Cornelius Jesus had been glorified by being resurrected.
The Holy Spirit as the Spirit of the glorified Jesus was not only not given yet, it was not yet in John 7:39.
Let's start here. Find me a passage anywhere in the Bible speaking of "the Spirit of Jesus" applying to anytime before the life, death and resurrection of the man Jesus.
But after His resurrection we do find "the Spirit of Jesus did not allow them" (Acts 16:7) .
And we find "For I know that this will turn out to salvation through your petition and the bountiful supply of the Spirit of Jesus Christ." (Phil. 1:19)
Before the incarnation, living, death and resurrection of Jesus, find me a passage referring either to "the Spirit of Jesus" or " the Spirit of Jesus Christ ".
The typology of the anointing oil in Exodus 30:23-35 indicates symbolically that certain spices were compounded into the oil to produce a sacred specific resultant compound ointment.
We believe that the incarnated, human lived, crucified and resurrected Man Jesus was compounded to make the Spirit that was not yet until the time Jesus was glorified.
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Originally posted by sonshipThe point is that the phrase [b]"the Holy Spirit was not Yet"does not mean that the Holy Spirit had not yet come into existence, but that it had not yet come on the believers, because the Holy Spirit had not yet been sent or given to all of them. The Holy Spirit has always existed.
The specific passage of John 7:39 doesn't s ...[text shortened]... b] was compounded to make the Spirit that was not yet until the time Jesus was glorified.[/b]Correction. Some ancient manuscripts do have "Holy" before Spirit in John 7:39.
The Sinaiticus, one of the leading NT uncial manuscripts and a third-century papyrus do not have "Holy" before Spirit in John 7:39.
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Let's start here. Find me a passage anywhere in the Bible speaking of "the Spirit of Jesus" applying to anytime before the life, death and resurrection of the man Jesus.
Here is where some Christian brothers may have a problem.
They want to affirm strongly that Christ is God the eternal - never had a beginning and always was.
And they are right. They are 100% right that Christ as God Himself always was.
Where then are they reluctant concerning some OTHER aspect of who Jesus Christ is? Some dear brothers are therefore reluctant to admit that the MAN Jesus is an item of God's CREATION.
What? Did you not read dear saint or friend - "God CREATED MAN ... " (Genesis 1:27) ?
So if God CREATED man then any MAN is an item of God's creation.
So any man is a creature.
So we have a great paradox -
Jesus Christ is Godman. Jesus Christ is the Creator as WELL as the creature. But because some evangelical Christians are scared to admit that Jesus is also a creature, they resort to the unfortunate principle of replacing what Chist is with something else.
Jesus Christ is the mingling of God and man - the union of the eternal Creator with the created creature. That is unless you wish to say that God did NOT create man. But if God CREATED man then the man Jesus is the Creator joined to His own creation.
This is why the term "the Spirit of Jesus" [specifically] or "the Spirit of Jesus Christ" cannot be found until AFTER the coming and finished work of the man Jesus.
This Spirit (including the man Jesus) was not yet until Jesus was glorified in resurrection.
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The Spirit of Jesus was not yet before Jesus was glorified. Now it is very interesting that the Old Testament prophesied that a MAN would be like rivers of water.
Right here - Indeed a King will reign according to righteousness, And the rulers will rule according to justice. And a man will be like a refuge from the wind and a covering from the tempest, Like streams of water in a dry place, Like the shadow of a massive rick in a wasted land." (Isaiah 32:1,2)
That's our Lord Jesus - a MAN who is like a massive rock! Jesus - a MAN like streams of water in a dry place. You think ?
Now compare this to John 7:39 about the "rivers of living water" being the Spirit who was not yet.
"He who believes into Me, as the Scripture said, out of his innermost being shall flow rivers of living water."
There's our streams of water in a dry place.
"But this He said concerning the Spirit, whom those who believed into Him were about to receive; for the Spirit was not yet, because Jesus had not yet been glorified."
The MAN Jesus was glorified in resurrection and "the last Adam became a life giving Spirit" .
Huh? Look. He did not become a life CONTAINING Spirit. Life was always in Him. He became a life GIVING Spirit, because He accomplished incarnation, human living, death for redemption, and resurrection.
When God, having become a man, accomplished these, the Man, the Nazarene - resurrected - "became a life GIVING Spirit" . He became like streams of waters in a dry place.
Oh, in Revelation there is only one river of water of life. But within each man He is plural "rivers" and plural "streams" .
There is a stream for out conscience, a stream for our mind, a river for our emotions, a river for our will, a stream for our memory, another stream for our speech.
All the parts of our inward soul receive Christ as "rivers" of living water. But the Holy Spirit is just one.