It's quite a tragedy if adopting a religious ideology renders one incapable of empathy for or comprehension of the inner workings of people with different beliefs.
Imagine not being able to understand what meaning and importance and aspirations in life someone who believes different things might have.
To be enthusiastic about one's own beliefs and aspirations - and the meaning they create - is one thing, but being deprived of empathy and the common sense to see through the eyes of others - at least enough to have some idea - is literally tragic.
This is for you to respond to, KellyJay. Or you can just let people see that you have no response, if you choose.
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16 Dec 19
@kellyjay saidI chose not to use 'delusion' out of respect. I only ask you to do the same with 'scum' when referring to our potential origin as a species.
Why wouldn't delusion be an accurate description? Any belief not grounded in truth would be made up, wouldn't it, comprehending ways to cope isn't seeking the truth, it is just attempting to make the dots fit that one thinks is required if they do or not. You are quite content suggesting the creation of gods helps people do that, I actually agree with you there.
Reproduct ...[text shortened]... hy any possible other reasons would be more acceptable to any other, if any, could be true or false.
Life is miraculous and beautiful, even without God in the equation. 'Scum' is something you find round the rim of a bath.
16 Dec 19
@ghost-of-a-duke saidI agree life is beautiful and fearfully and wonderfully made, but I believe that it is by design.
I chose not to use 'delusion' out of respect. I only ask you to do the same with 'scum' when referring to our potential origin as a species.
Life is miraculous and beautiful, even without God in the equation. 'Scum' is something you find round the rim of a bath.
A top-down view of creation is awe-inspiring while looking at it as something that occurred from the bottom up it's too good to be a jumble of natural processes working it's way up to the level of complexity we see.
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@kellyjay saidI fully understand (and respect) that as a Christian, you view creation as something designed and that without God the universe would appear pointless etc.
I agree life is beautiful and fearfully and wonderfully made, but I believe that it is by design.
A top-down view of creation is awe-inspiring while looking at it as something that occurred from the bottom up it's too good to be a jumble of natural processes working it's way up to the level of complexity we see.
I take quite the opposite view. The world is all the more inspiring and awesome as we got to where we are today 'without' a divine hand, against all the odds. The reason you choose to use words like 'scum' is to draw a stark parallel to divine creation. I think that's a bit cheap to be honest. It's like, "take your pick, God or scum.'
I believe we both originated from whatever chemical amalgamation gave rise to life and that to denigrate such an origin disrespects us both. You wouldn't, for example refer to my grandfather as scum, or indeed my great great great grandfather as scum or any of my ancestors. Why then do you think it is not an issue to describe my origin as emanating from pond scum?
I don't know how life got going on this planet, but it is certainly something amazing and awe-inspiring. (And no less so without God).
16 Dec 19
@ghost-of-a-duke saidThere is no point if’s it is all here without cause. An inspirational point of view of one would be as appropriate as one of nauseas for another. There would be no justification since it is all without cause! Pond scum or star dust would both be as meaningless as anything else, if there was no meaning for it all.
I fully understand (and respect) that as a Christian, you view creation as something designed and that without God the universe would appear pointless etc.
I take quite the opposite view. The world is all the more inspiring and awesome as we got to where we are today 'without' a divine hand, against all the odds. The reason you choose to use words like 'scum' is to ...[text shortened]... this planet, but it is certainly something amazing and awe-inspiring. (And no less so without God).
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16 Dec 19
@kellyjay saidTo you perhaps.
There is no point if’s it is all here without cause. An inspirational point of view of one would be as appropriate as one of nauseas for another. There would be no justification since it is all without cause! Pond scum or star dust would both be as meaningless as anything else, if there was no meaning for it all.
Please accept that for me, even without God, the world is full of meaning and wonder and that our origin is to be admired, not denigrated. Again, I respectfully avoid calling you deluded for believing in a deity, so please extend the same courteously when discussing the views of others, even if you don't agree with them. Is that really such an unreasonable request?
Think for a moment. If you are wrong and I am right, life had this extraordinary start billions of years ago and made this amazing evolutionary journey to form a human like yourself, providing you with the intellectual capacity to describe your own origin as pond scum and meaningless.
16 Dec 19
@fmf saidThe man is without courage.
This is for you to respond to, KellyJay. Or you can just let people see that you have no response, if you choose.
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Think for a moment. If you are wrong and I am right, life had this extraordinary start billions of years ago and made this amazing evolutionary journey to form a human like yourself, providing you with the intellectual capacity to describe your own origin as pond scum and meaningless.
Was the evolutionary process purposeful?
@kellyjay saidIf you lost your religious faith, do you think you might take your own life?
There is no point if’s it is all here without cause. An inspirational point of view of one would be as appropriate as one of nauseas for another. There would be no justification since it is all without cause! Pond scum or star dust would both be as meaningless as anything else, if there was no meaning for it all.
16 Dec 19
@fmf saidThis is whining: being creeped out by being questioned in a forum where you post 30 x a day, in every thread, lol.
It was the constant stalking and pompous off-topic browbeating I found creepy, and not the very limited number of genuine conversations you could be bothered to engage in.
16 Dec 19
@fmf saidI've found Kelly Jay to be very empathetic, great poster. He puts up diligent and honest responses, and he tends to not read in too far or take posts too lightly.
It's quite a tragedy if adopting a religious ideology renders one incapable of empathy for or comprehension of the inner workings of people with different beliefs.
Imagine not being able to understand what meaning and importance and aspirations in life someone who believes different things might have.
To be enthusiastic about one's own beliefs and aspirations - and the me ...[text shortened]... ou to respond to, KellyJay. Or you can just let people see that you have no response, if you choose.
Very intelligent and well done posts. Never needling or based on a bad take.
I find your words here to be rather ironic.
@philokalia saidI relish being questioned and I relish questioning. And I have done so for years and years. But at times ~ too many times ~ in the last couple of years, you've just been a stalker - and none too subtle about it - with your dreary repetitive off-topic personal condemnations and "advice". I have no problem with being questioned.
This is whining: being creeped out by being questioned in a forum where you post 30 x a day, in every thread, lol.
@philokalia saidAnd yet he cannot empathize with or understand how people who don't share his speculations about supernatural matters can find any meaning in life, or any importance, or any purpose, or any reason to live, or any reason to have children. His religious beliefs have taken a tragic toll on the substance of his common humanity. This is despite the fact that he has participated in countless epic threads here on the meaning of life or finding meaning in life where people have shared with him their different beliefs and perspectives
I've found Kelly Jay to be very empathetic, great poster.
@kellyjay saidHave you never met an atheist with children? Have you never talked to them about why their children "matter" to them? What about all the times it's been talked about here on this forum in discussions in which you were involved? Still "not sure why [children] would matter" to people who have not settled for your supernatural answers to the mysteries of life and who don't derive purpose and meaning from religious beliefs in the way you do?
If it is nothing but a delusion, not sure why it would matter if anyone reproduced; it isn't like it would matter one way or another in the end.