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Originally posted by karoly aczelWhat's a matter with converting people ?
I would be interested if you didn't have such a one trick pony show.
Heard it all before. Understand the deeper implications,etc.
This is a spirituality forum, not a Christian one... A bit of debate, an open mind,share ideas, etc.You seem to lack an open mind. Maybe work with what you have rather than trying to convert people.
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Originally posted by karoly aczel
. A bit of debate, an open mind,share ideas, etc.You seem to lack an open mind. Maybe work with what you have rather than trying to convert people.
Believe it or not, the reason I would be willing to debate (Revelation 14 being the subject) would be for spiritual benefits and to secure spiritual values.
Some people seem to say "Please just don't believe things too much." But is believing things strongly a crime?
I think true tolerance has to be measured against someone actually having strong positions. A wishy washy person who may not have a clue what he should believe, is not necessarily more tolerant. Find someone who has strong beliefs. Then you can compare how tolerant he is in relation to others.
After reading Revelation 14 if there is something you anticipate you will wish to debate about (for spiritual nourishment) let me know. You don't know what I would say. I might agree. i might say "That question is too hard for me."
Anyway, I try to dispense spiritual blessing in my treatment of this relevant biblical subject matter. And if some get converted along the way, that's good too. The Bible is persuasive often times, bringing people to actually touch the living God.
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Originally posted by apathistThe book of Revelation is way to structured and designed for me to dismiss it as a, ie. "madman's dream".
Mystical visions, drug induced, happens all over the place. This is known.
I cannot see a drugged man or a mad mind producing such a designed book.
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Revelation 14 very much shows that God considers the earth a place where He grows His life in people. That is people are like the soil into which God plants something living and it grows to maturity.
There is a vision of maturity being developed early - Firstfruits in verses 1 -5.
There is a vision of maturity being developed latter - Harvest - verses 14-15.
These two reapings of "plants" are positive and related to the plan of God.
But there is also a negative maturing also. That is the maturing of the Grapes of Wrath, verses 17 - 20.
Just to see these three reapings is significant about world history and the purpose of God.
Two positive reapings - the Firstfruits, and the Harvest, and one negative reaping - the Grapes of Wrath.
This chapter alone is concise and significant to reveal where history is going on this earth. God has has planted spiritual life into human beings. They will "ripen" into maturity in a collective way at the end of this age.
A remnant of a smaller group will ripen and mature in the divine life early. These will be the Firstfruits to enter into this realm of human beings mingled with the Spirit of God. They will be taken out of the earth and stand before Christ actually in Heaven for His Father's satisfaction.
The majority of the "crop" will be left to pass through the darkest time of this planet. The pressure, heat, persecution will cause the remaining majority of the crop to be ripened into a Harvest to be taken up by Christ towards the end of this period.
This chapter helps us to see in signs how world history will culminate before the coming of a new age of Christ reigning on this planet.
Remember two positive reapings - Firstfruits before the great tribulation, Harvest toward the end of the great tribulation, and a negative harvest of "grapes of wrath" as enemies of Christ to be vanguished by Him at the end of this age.
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Originally posted by divegeesterWhat is this about self important? I don't get the self important part.
Then stop being a self-important bore.
You seem to be wanting to make me important. You started a thread dedicated to jaywill. You thought I was important. ?!?
Boring I get. Some petty little minds are bored with the Bible.
I don't get the self important accusation.
What could be more boring than a thread about some guy's change of id tag?
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Originally posted by karoly aczelGood morning.
Failing
All due respect, I think this is a silly answer from a gospel's perspective.
What % success rate merits persuading people to believe and receive Christ as Savior as worthwhile ? Should the door to salvation be shut after only one is converted ?
Did you not read the parable about the shepherd who left 99 sheep to go and rescue one lost sheep? This shows the compassion of the Shepherd to secure the safety of even one lost lamb.
" What do you think? If any man has a hundred sheep and one of them goes astraywill he not leave the ninety-nine on the mountain and go and seek the one that has gone astray ?
And if it so happens that he finds it, truly I say to you that he rejoices over it more than over the ninety-nine which have not gone astray.
In the same way it is not there will of your Father who is in the heavens that one of these little ones perish." (Matt, 18:12-15)
If even one out of ninety nine people gets saved that is worthwhile to the Good Shepherd.
Jesus added in Luke:
" And when he finds it, he lays it on his shoulders, rejoicing. And when he comes into his house, he calls together his friends and his neighbors, saying to them,
Rejoice with me, for I have found my sheep that was lost.
I tell you that in the same way there will be more joy in heaven over on sinner repenting than over ninety-nine righteous persons who have no need of repentance." (Luke 15:5-7)
Was it Zen Buddhism that so robbed you of a sense of compassion ?
Even one soul turning to be saved by the Good Shepherd, being converted, is a joyous occasion, though ninety-nine feel they have no need to be saved.
Originally posted by sonshipHow many people do you think you have converted here? You once claimed that I may have been personally responsible for hundreds of people in this community facing eternal torture after they die as a result of them reading my posts. How is it that you feel able to estimate that I may have done that to "hundreds of people" and yet you have never taken it upon yourself to estimate how many people in this community you have saved from eternal torture?
What's a matter with converting people ?