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Originally posted by telerionEternity is by definition eternal. Therefore, your idol did not create eternity. But your idol created everything? Mysterious. Sheesh.
You are just twisting words to suit your meaning:
The dictionary defines "eternal" as meaning: "Time without beginning or end; infinite time." and "The state or quality of being eternal." Why does God need to create eternity if He is eternal?
Originally posted by mk83You cannot condemm me nor I condemm you.Only by THE WORD OF GOD, can condemm.GOD has shown HIS power, HE shows HIS power each and every day. There is power in the new believer, whose life has changed.Who has found the wisdom, understanding, love and peace. As I said before there are many that are Islamic that are peaceful, but their religion is not. Their religion is a religion of hate and anger. Whereas in the Christian faith there is only hate for sin. There is love for the sinner but hate for the sin. A muslim is taught to hate all those that donot believe as they do. They are taught to hate and kill. Where as the Christian is taught to pray for those that hate them.
Originally posted by blindfaith101
[b]When did Muslims feed the poor more than Christians....
Well, I happen to know a few people who work as missionaries in Africa, and they tell me these things, I also happen to know a few muslims, some involved in feeding schemes, some building hospitals etc. I know of many radio stations that feed the poor an ...[text shortened]... other posts, if i have please forgive me, we were called not to condemn but to set free.
MK83[/b]
Crusades? There was rape and murder on both sides. But what about those 5 million plus Christians that have been Slaughtered in North Africa, in the past ten years. Did you Islamic missionaries tell that. Did they tell you about the women being raped? The children taken from their parents and forced to learn Islam?
JESUS CHRIST is proof of THE WORD OF GOD. The same JESUS that is written in the KORAN. Except CHRIST is taught in the fullness of understanding. CHRIST is the only way to the throne of GOD. CHRIST is the only way for the forgiveness of sin. Does the god of the Koran forgive? No. Does he provide a way for frogiveness? No. Does he have a way of Salvation, without murder? No.
It is good that you are saved. It is good that you are living for JESUS CHRIST. But I donot condemm you or they or other Christians. THE WORD OF GOD, does that. THE WORD OF GOD clearly states that without the Saving Power of JESUS CHRIST, there is no way to heaven. THE WORD OF GOD clearly states all those that do not accept HIM and HIS teachings are doomed to everlasting punishment. Yes, what excuse do you,Muslims, unbelievers, and I have? For not following all of the WORDS, that JESUS CHRIST taught. Yes, what excuse do we have? None!
You have neve offended me for THE LORD GOD has allowed me to stand. THE WORD OF GOD teaches the right road that a believer should travel. I hope and pray to GOD, that you are on the same road.
Originally posted by PhlabibitI have no joy in my heart for those that are not saved. There is no rejoycement in my heart for the Lost, that refused to come to CHRIST. The joy that I have is in that few that come to know the truth, of CHRIST.
Why do I picture you rubbing your hands as you say these things...
ES
Originally posted by blindfaith101
doomed to everlasting punishment.
THE WORD OF GOD teaches the right road that a believer should travel
Please show me proof of this everlasting punishment.
You are right the Word does teach the road, but we need to travel that road, my friend even the Devil believes in Jesus Christ, therefore by your argument he is also saved.
I can show you people that are changed by good phyciatric treatment, I am not denying that the Word of God can change peoples live's but I am saying that we need to show the true power of God!
My Bible says stuff like every knee will bow, every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord and how about believe with you heart and confess with your tongue and you will be saved
Do we really show love with our words, "You will burn in hell, if you do not repent", I can't say I believe it to be true, but I once did, I once was exactly like you, I thought I was going to heaven and everyone else was going to hell if they did not believe.
This I can say to you, continue to seek God, draw closer to him and I will do the same, as we do his Word and guidance will become clearer to both of us and in the end we will both speak only truth no longer interwoven with flesh,
God Bless,
MK83
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Originally posted by mk83Please show me proof of this everlasting punishment.
Originally posted by blindfaith101
[b]doomed to everlasting punishment.
THE WORD OF GOD teaches the right road that a believer should travel
Please show me proof of this everlasting punishment.
You are right the Word does teach the road, but we need to travel that road, my friend even the Devil believes in Jesus Christ, therefore by your ar ...[text shortened]... nd in the end we will both speak only truth no longer interwoven with flesh,
God Bless,
MK83[/b]
Numerous places in the Bible. If you want the verses I'll give them to you.
Do we really show love with our words, "You will burn in hell, if you do not repent"
If these words are true you are most definately showing love. If you love someone you will warn the person. If you don't love someone then you would just leave the person to continue in sin and end up in hell.
Originally posted by dj2beckerPlease do send the verses,
Numerous places in the Bible. If you want the verses I'll give them to you.
If these words are true you are most definately showing love. If you love someone you will warn the person. If you don't love someone then you would just leave the person to continue in sin and end up in hell.
It all depends how you say it, but from the way I have heard most Christians say it, it's defininatly not out of of love, more prehaps out of arrogance, love is to help show the person the path not to condemn the path they are currently walking. We are all human, we know exactly how we all behave when someone backs us up against a wall and forces us to fight, so I don't think we can call that true love, I think we do much more damage with the way we try to force people to believe.
See the other problem is that we all have to realize is that the bible is just a book, the Word of God only becomes special when it lives inside of you, if you don't believe me then look at all the people who srudy the bible at Varsity level and yet never have a relasionship with God, they will be able to make most believing Christians look bad with there knowledge of the Bible, but they still have no real relasionship with the living God, Jesus's pray included, Give us today our daily bread, this daily bread is not a little chapter you read from the Bible, without a true relasionship with God you may as well read the back page of a newspaper. But with a true relasionship with God, the question is, do you even need the Bible and be careful of the answer, cause what did the the father of faith read? What did Adam read? what did Enoch read?
Makes you think?
MK83
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Originally posted by mk83I totally agree with you. The point I was trying to make is that eternal hell is a reality if you believe what the Bible says:
Please do send the verses,
It all depends how you say it, but from the way I have heard most Christians say it, it's defininatly not out of of love, more prehaps out of arrogance, love is to help show the person the path not to condemn the path they are currently walking. We are all human, we know exactly how we all behave when someone backs us up against a ...[text shortened]... e the father of faith read? What did Adam read? what did Enoch read?
Makes you think?
MK83
Matthew 10:28 - And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
Mark 9:43 - And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched:
2 Peter 2:4 - For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;...
Revelation 20:13 - And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
I agree that it is not wise to condem sinners to hell. But the fact remains that if you die in your sins you will go to hell. That is why I say that it is important for people to know about the reality of hell. I think that the best way of bringing the gospel is by living a Christ-like life. The only way of doing this is if we have a living relationship with Jesus Christ. The Bible does say however, that if you see your brother sinning and you do not warm him, his blood will be upon your hands. But threatening people by damning them to hell is definatley not a wise way of going about it.
Regards,
Daniel
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Originally posted by mk83But with a true relasionship with God, the question is, do you even need the Bible and be careful of the answer, cause what did the the father of faith read? What did Adam read? what did Enoch read?
Please do send the verses,
It all depends how you say it, but from the way I have heard most Christians say it, it's defininatly not out of of love, more prehaps out of arrogance, love is to help show the person the path not to condemn the path they are currently walking. We are all human, we know exactly how we all behave when someone backs us up against a ...[text shortened]... e the father of faith read? What did Adam read? what did Enoch read?
Makes you think?
MK83
The question is also, can you have a true relationship with God if you don't read His word?
The example of Adam and Enoch is an interseting one. They certainly did have a true relationship with God. But I think they probably heard God speaking differently then than we do now. They did not have the Bible, but they had faith. Today we have the Bible which they did not have and we also have faith as they had. But I believe that God speaks today using His word, The Bible. But remember the letter kills but the spirit brings life. God gave us the Holy Spirit to be our teacher. If we read the Bible without the interpretation of the Holy Spirit it is indeed only like a newspaper. That is why we need Gods Spirit to interpret the Word to us. Else it is only dead.
Regards,
Daniel
Matthew 10:28 - And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
Yes God has the power, but where does it mention eternity, also an interesting thing about this verse is that spirit is enternal, not soul nor flesh.
Mark 9:43 - And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched
The fire will never be quenched, yes, but it is as any fire today the more you feed in to bigger it grows, it does again not specifically mention anything about sinners going to hell for eternity, I do believe Jesus was speaking specifically to the people who believe in him when he said this? But I stand under correction?
2 Peter 2:4 - For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;...
So they were kept in hell until the day of judgement, if they were released then and judged, then surely hell is not eternal for them?
Revelation 20:13 - And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
Again, at the day of judgement men were released from hell, but when the bible speaks of our good works does it not say that they will be tested by fire? all bad will be burnt away and only the good will remain as fine stones? So this could then be related back to that after a spell in the fire, all that would remain would be your good works and you would be judged against that.
The fact is that most of the scripture was written to the believer not the unbeliever, I do not argue about the reality of hell, it exists, I argue about the reality of it being an eternal punishment.
I also argue against the definition of sin, being what we think is good and moral and what we think is not, I say that sin is about the grace God has given to each individual, some he has choosen to call, and has given more Grace, some he has given less, but no matter what Grace he has given, you work within that Grace, a muslim may never have the same opertunities you have at Grace so rather than condemn him, love him in that Grace and convert him through that grace. I cannot judge a man by what he believes for I know not what Grace he has recieved? So I do not know what is sin for him in Gods eyes. See, thats the point any knowledge I have is given by God, not taken by me, if someone has been given less how can I judge him on what I have received?
We both agree that the word is dead without the life of God behind it, it may be dead to a muslim if God does not inspire it to life in his heart, so how can I judge him? I do know that the God I believe in is powerfull and that when he talks people will listen!
God Bless,
MK83
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Originally posted by mk83I think you might have been looking for these two verses:
Matthew 10:28 - And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
Yes God has the power, but where does it mention eternity, also an inter ...[text shortened]... l and that when he talks people will listen!
God Bless,
MK83
[/b]
Daniel 12:2 - And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.
Matthew 25:46 - And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.
God Bless
Daniel
Originally posted by mk83Here are some scriptures of everlasting punishment;
Originally posted by blindfaith101
[b]doomed to everlasting punishment.
THE WORD OF GOD teaches the right road that a believer should travel
Please show me proof of this everlasting punishment.
You are right the Word does teach the road, but we need to travel that road, my friend even the Devil believes in Jesus Christ, therefore by your ar ...[text shortened]... nd in the end we will both speak only truth no longer interwoven with flesh,
God Bless,
MK83[/b]
DANIEL 12:1-3
ISAIAH 34:8-10
MATTHEW 18:8
MATTHEW 25:30-46
MARK 9:46-49
JOHN 5:24-29
REVELATIONS 14;10,11
REVELATIONS 20:11-15
REVELATIONS 21:8
There is no salvation for satan and the angels of rebellion. Yes, they know that JESUS CHRIST is the SON OF GOD.But they donot believe in him. Remember that from the beginning of the rebellion, the idea was to replace HIM and take HIS power.
Yes, there are people that have gotten good phyciatric treatment. But was it by the power of GOD. Yes, GOD uses doctors to do his will, but not to their credit. Even after the treatment they have recieved, they still have to deal with a life of sin.They still need to come see Doctor JESUS. Without the salvation of CHRIST there is little change in their life.
You and others have expressed the same thoughts. But try to understand this next statement. Would GOD be a loving GOD if HE did not put those words in THE WORD OF GOD. Would HE be a loving GOD, if HE did not send JESUS CHRIST to teach and warn us that, if we donot repent, we are headed for everlasting punishment. Would GOD be a loving GOD if HE did not have believers going throughout the world, warning the world to repent or face everlasting punishment.
Have you and others ever thought that this may be the last chance you get to hear about Salvation? Sure there are those that say good riddance. I am sick about hearing about GOD. But what if what you are hearing is the truth? If you go to asleep tonight and wake up in the Judgement. Can you tell the LORD that you were not warned? Can you blame the believers here at RHP, for not warning you?
I hope you do continue to seek the Truth. I hope that you come to GOD. In the way that HE wants. Through JESUS CHRIST the Son of THE MOST HIGH GOD. Who is the SAVIOR for the World.
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Originally posted by blindfaith101Jude 1:7 - Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.
Here are some scriptures of everlasting punishment;
DANIEL 12:1-3
ISAIAH 34:8-10
MATTHEW 18:8
MATTHEW 25:30-46
MARK 9:46-49
JOHN 5:24-29
REVELATIONS 14;10,11
REVELATIONS 20:11-15
REVELATIONS 21:8
There is no salvation for satan and the angels of rebellion. Yes, they know that JESUS CHRIST is the SON OF GOD.But they donot believe in him. Remem ...[text shortened]... HE wants. Through JESUS CHRIST the Son of THE MOST HIGH GOD. Who is the SAVIOR for the World.
