02 Apr 11
Originally posted by mikelomAnd it never will.
If there was such a thing as a God then it would have given us a clear indicator of its existence. Alas, it is never forthcoming.
God created man with intelligence. As such, of course man would worship God given the direct proof. This is why God requires Faith. Faith is believing even when there is no evidence (or proof) that you are right.
This is why there is no direct proof of the many acts of God in the Bible, including the original creation. In order to maintain the faith connection, the things God directly had a hand in were brought about using natural processes, i.e. evolution. Yes, it took millions of years, and not a week, but so what? What is time to God?
And as an aside, to those of Faith, there IS clear indication of God in the sheer magnificent beauty of nature.
02 Apr 11
Originally posted by rwingettIf they have no conscious memory of their creation, then like you and your atheist pals, they would have no reason to even believe that you exist, except as a fearsome demon who comes occasionally to eat their brethren.
I make my own cheese. I curdle the milk, drain off the whey, press the curds and thereby bring a new cheese to life. To those cheeses, I am a living god.
03 Apr 11
Originally posted by SuzianneCan anyone have a memory of their creation? Or would their memories necessarily start after their creation?
If they have no conscious memory of their creation, then like you and your atheist pals, they would have no reason to even believe that you exist, except as a fearsome demon who comes occasionally to eat their brethren.
But I use a special animating mesophilic culture in my cheese making. This imbues my cheeses with an unusually high level of self awareness for a dairy product. They may not necessarily recall coming out of the press, but they all seem to have fond recollections of the time they received their wax coating. Only a beneficent god would go to such trouble to protect his creation from mold and whatnot. I don't think they've quite come to grips with the fact that they eventually have to be eaten, but they're certainly glad that their lifespan has been considerably lengthened.
03 Apr 11
Originally posted by rwingettCheese's Christ!
Can anyone have a memory of their creation? Or would their memories necessarily start after their creation?
But I use a special animating mesophilic culture in my cheese making. This imbues my cheeses with an unusually high level of self awareness for a dairy product. They may not necessarily recall coming out of the press, but they all seem to ha ...[text shortened]... to be eaten, but they're certainly glad that their lifespan has been considerably lengthened.
03 Apr 11
1 edit
Originally posted by mikelomGod is indeed a simple word and idea. It can be very useful.
Why would this 'super God' want us to answer anything? I am shown by all theists here that it is the ultimate and knows everything. If that be the case, I don't need to answer to it.
What exactly is worthy of worship? I think 'mummy' comes before a paradox such as a God.
And so to the old argument, if God created my 'mummy' and so forth, who created Go r 'bottle opener' which hold the same evaluation in many peoples' lives. 😏
-m.
But it is not concrete, and if you wait long enough, you'll find the bottle tops now twist off and no openner is required.
10 Apr 11
Originally posted by mikelomPlease prove your great great great great great grandfather. If you can't show him to me, he never existed. Prove him and I'll believe in your fairies too! You must be a newbie in the "atheist belief" for your child like comment. WOW.
cheese exists and faries don't!
I cannot comprehend the illogic of a book proving that there was a son of man, the ultimate being.
Prove this man to me, and I will believe in faries too!
Please let me see what you see.
-m.
10 Apr 11
Originally posted by AgergIf by asking "Where do you see yourself in the future?" , mean you have to have eyes to see in the future
do hearts have eyes? 😕
or...
"How do you see yourself?" mean you have to have another pair of eyes you can switch to to look at yourself?
LOL I think the comment meant spiritually - to look with your heart 😉
10 Apr 11
Originally posted by mikelomI see a post that tells me you have already made up your mind.
cheese exists and faries don't!
I cannot comprehend the illogic of a book proving that there was a son of man, the ultimate being.
Prove this man to me, and I will believe in faries too!
Please let me see what you see.
-m.
"Prove this man to me, and I will believe in faries too!"
I believe in Jesus, but I don't believe in fairies.(I've seen a few ferries though)
In all the world have you ever heard of how you can have eternal life except by believing in Jesus?
17 Apr 11
Well God is the almighty and all-powerful and all knowing. What a combination!
Since we are arguing the existence of this afore-defined God, let us consider a few 'knowledge issues', as my TOK teacher would call them:
1. Can God make a rock that's too big for him/her/it to lift?
2. If God is omnipotent and omni-benevolent, why does he/she/it permit the evil in the world?
3. If all the Gods before the current one (Zeus, Appolo, Jupiter, Aphrodite, Juno, Freja...) came to be regarded as incorrect, is not then likely that this current God will also be likely regarded as incorrect?
"I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one less God than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all other possible Gods, you will then understand why I dismiss yours." Stephen F. Roberts
Forgive me if I sound ignorant or naive. I have only recently begun practicing my hand at religious debates, and although I have more than plenty of such arguments at school, as of yet I have no standards with which I may compare my arguments.
17 Apr 11
Originally posted by RingwraithLet me try please...
Well God is the almighty and all-powerful and all knowing. What a combination!
Since we are arguing the existence of this afore-defined God, let us consider a few 'knowledge issues', as my TOK teacher would call them:
1. Can God make a rock that's too big for him/her/it to lift?
2. If God is omnipotent and omni-benevolent, why does he/she/it permit ...[text shortened]... h arguments at school, as of yet I have no standards with which I may compare my arguments.
1. "God" is not concerned with physicalities. Whether "It" can make a rock big enough for "It " to pick it up is irrelevent. That's not the direction that evolution iis heading in.
2.Evil exists so we can learn. "Every creation myth needs a devil".
Anyway it's not really evil, just ignorant.
3. Correct.
17 Apr 11
Originally posted by SuzianneIt appears that you may have more faith in man than God.
And it never will.
God created man with intelligence. As such, of course man would worship God given the direct proof. This is why God requires Faith. Faith is believing even when there is no evidence (or proof) that you are right.
This is why there is no direct proof of the many acts of God in the Bible, including the original creation. In order ...[text shortened]... , to those of Faith, there IS clear indication of God in the sheer magnificent beauty of nature.
Why would God need millions or billions of years to create
anything. Do you not believe He could do just as the Holy Bible
says. Just because man say something is billions of years
old. Does that make it so? Is God then a Liar in your mind?
Is the words of the Holy Bible untrue? If so, why do suggest
that God exists? I do not understand this kind of belief and faith.
Are you one of those of Faith or is it that you are talking about
those that are?
17 Apr 11
2 edits
Originally posted by Nicksten“...Please prove your great great great great great grandfather. ...”
Please prove your great great great great great grandfather. If you can't show him to me, he never existed. Prove him and I'll believe in your fairies too! You must be a newbie in the "atheist belief" for your child like comment. WOW.
he doesn't have to. There is overwhelming credible EVIDENCE that every human has a father ( basic biological facts ) and therefore the above can be deduced from that fact i.e. the fact that every human has a father logically means that every human has a great great great great great grandfather without directly observing such a person and, therefore, he has a great great great great great grandfather.
In contrast, there is no credible evidence that there is a tooth fairy or a god.
17 Apr 11
1 edit
Originally posted by RJHinds“...Just because man say something is billions of years
It appears that you may have more faith in man than God.
Why would God need millions or billions of years to create
anything. Do you not believe He could do just as the Holy Bible
says. Just because man say something is billions of years
old. Does that make it so? Is God then a Liar in your mind?
Is the words of the Holy Bible untrue? If so, why do ...[text shortened]... f and faith.
Are you one of those of Faith or is it that you are talking about
those that are?
old. Does that make it so? ...”
No. We have scientific proof/evidence for that.
17 Apr 11
Originally posted by Andrew HamiltonNo, we have science based measurements. We have no proof. To have proof we'd need to KNOW that something was a million years old. Perhaps something stamped with the date 999,997,000 B.C.
“...Just because man say something is billions of years
old. Does that make it so? ...”
No. We have scientific proof/evidence for that.
You have 'faith' in carbon dating and other age estimation techniques. What if we have something subtly wrong in our carbon dating techniques such that we can accurately measure something a few hundred years old, but are orders of magnitude wrong beyond that.
17 Apr 11
4 edits
Originally posted by Darax The Good“...No, we have science based measurements. We have no proof. ...”
No, we have science based measurements. We have no proof. To have proof we'd need to KNOW that something was a million years old. Perhaps something stamped with the date 999,997,000 B.C.
You have 'faith' in carbon dating and other age estimation techniques. What if we have something subtly wrong in our carbon dating techniques such that we ca ...[text shortened]... ely measure something a few hundred years old, but are orders of magnitude wrong beyond that.
if a measurement shows that something is millions years old leaving no reasonable/valid doubt and with no evidence to the contrary (no evidence must be ignored) then how is that not proof.
“...You have 'faith' in carbon dating and other age estimation techniques. ...”
No, no faith. We have science. If that science was wrong then much of our technology would not work for much of our technology came from scientific method -the same scientific method that deduces such things as the approximate age of things.
For example, if relativity was wrong then not only would carbon dating not work but nuclear power stations would not work etc.