15 Oct 14
Originally posted by Grampy BobbyWell I am not a Christian. And I don't believe in "salvation" and I don't believe in "damnation". There is virtually nothing that you believe about Jesus that I can say I believe. If you lost your faith would you continue to say you were a Christian due your 'I'd rather die than renounce my faith' thing?
Salvation is executed by God the Holy Spirit at the moment of faith in Christ. Some believers grow in grace out of infancy to maturity; others lose their way with confused daily priorities. None lose their salvation. Why? Because it didn't depend on them in the first place. They accepted a gift. Christ's work of propitiation on the cross and spiritual birth are permanent.
15 Oct 14
1. Listen to an entire Justin Timberlake album.
2. Watch FOX news all day.
3. Sit through a movie narrated by Ben Stein.
4. Debate RJHinds.
5. Take RBHILL seriously.
6. Steal Suzi's tin-foil hat.
7. Outlast FMF in a debate [although...are those really two options? Or just different descriptions of the same result?]
15 Oct 14
Originally posted by FMFIt is in Christianity, as you well know. In fact, it is you lying to people right now saying that renouncing Christ with one's mouth has no effect. Remember Jesus telling Peter he would deny Him three times before the cock crowed. What a man says is his bond. It has consequences.
"Renouncing" your faith in the face of violent coercion and mortal danger at the hands of would-be murderers or terrorists wouldn't actually mean you were "renouncing" your faith. Lying to a murder to protect your family or yourself: the "lie" is surely of no consequence. An untrue statement made under that kind of coercion is not somehow transformed into a 'true statement' and therefore it is not a lie, surely, in any serious moral paradigm.
This "lying to save one's life" business is unadulterated BS. If you deny Christ with your mouth, you are renouncing Jesus. Period.
This is dangerous thinking. It may lead to people taking the Mark of the Beast, thinking it is not real if they are "lying". This is untrue. Your words and your actions have meaning, whether or not you want to use this thinking to "absolve" yourself of responsibility.
15 Oct 14
Originally posted by SuzianneBut I don't think it does so how can I be "lying"? An "untrue statement" extracted under mortal threat does not somehow become a "true statement". If someone "believes in Christ", telling a gunman threatening to kill his or her family that they don't, does not somehow mean you do not "believe in Christ". Religious faith surely is not something so shallow and so fragile and so ephemeral that it can can come and go with a mere few words.
In fact, it is you lying to people right now saying that renouncing Christ with one's mouth has no effect.
Originally posted by SuzianneI'm sorry, but what you are saying is self opinionated BS.
It is in Christianity, as you well know. In fact, it is you lying to people right now saying that renouncing Christ with one's mouth has no effect. Remember Jesus telling Peter he would deny Him three times before the cock crowed. What a man says is his bond. It has consequences.
This "lying to save one's life" business is unadulterated BS. If you d ...[text shortened]... e meaning, whether or not you want to use this thinking to "absolve" yourself of responsibility.
Edit: seriously, what is it with you Americans. Why does everything have to be so black and white, life or death, in or out absolute?
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15 Oct 14
Originally posted by BigDoggProblem1. Listen to an entire Justin Timberlake album.
1. Listen to an entire Justin Timberlake album.
2. Watch FOX news all day.
3. Sit through a movie narrated by Ben Stein.
4. Debate RJHinds.
5. Take RBHILL seriously.
6. Steal Suzi's tin-foil hat.
7. Outlast FMF in a debate [although...are those really two options? Or just different descriptions of the same result?]
entire???
2. Watch FOX news all day.
all day???
- Joined
- 16 Jan 07
- Moves
- 95105
Originally posted by SuzianneWhat a man says is his bond. It has consequences.
It is in Christianity, as you well know. In fact, it is you lying to people right now saying that renouncing Christ with one's mouth has no effect. Remember Jesus telling Peter he would deny Him three times before the cock crowed. What a man says is his bond. It has consequences.
This "lying to save one's life" business is unadulterated BS. If you d ...[text shortened]... e meaning, whether or not you want to use this thinking to "absolve" yourself of responsibility.
id rather judge people by what they do rather than what they say.
a person may say anything to save the life of their child, but what they say does not change what they really feel or think. it would be ridiculous and petty of a god to hold a person to what they say under duress.
Originally posted by divegeesterOriginally posted by divegeester
I'm sorry, but what you are saying is self opinionated BS.
Edit: seriously, what is it with you Americans. Why does everything have to be so black and white, life or death, in or out absolute?
"Why does everything have to be so black and white, life or death, in or out absolute?"
If you're a believer in Christ, why the hell not? God Himself thinks in absolute terms: yes or no; family or separated forever.
Originally posted by Grampy BobbyYou believe you have an obligation to tell the truth to a "radicalized terrorist" threatening you with "brutal death" that supersedes your obligation to protect the lives of your own children and keep them safe from harm?
[I'd rather die than] Renounce my faith in Jesus Christ, even if death would be brutal and administered at the hands of a radicalized terrorist.
Is there any price you would not pay ~ with the lives and welfare of those around you ~ for your own personal "salvation"?
15 Oct 14
Originally posted by divegeesterSorry you don't like it.
I'm sorry, but what you are saying is self opinionated BS.
Edit: seriously, what is it with you Americans. Why does everything have to be so black and white, life or death, in or out absolute?
It comes with faith.
I find it beyond "too bad" that what people say and the witness they give or do not give means "nothing" to people these days.