Those dishonest scientists

Originally posted by Palynka
How can you possibly know if he's honest?

Be honest now.

Do you think that in this particular matter he gains any advantage by being dishonest ? I don't see of what profit it could be for Anthony Flew to concoct a pretended change of mind in this area.

I take him at his word. I also take Bart Erhman's word that he got fed up with evangelical Christianity and moved to a more skeptical position.

I get fed up with some aspects of traditional Christianity myself. Probably the only difference is that I keep in touch with Jesus Himself. He never disappoints me.

Originally posted by Andrew Hamilton
“...Most research exists to support the materialistic life style ...”

There isn't such thing as “ materialistic life style” therefore NO research exists to support the “materialistic life style” just as NO research exists to support the “tooth fairy”. You are just so deluded.

Your comment is dishonest because:

Most medical research is to cheat death, and no one has ever cheated death....therefore its all materialistic and nonsense.

In a spiritual society you wouldn't have clubs pubs and bars everywhere.

You wouldn't have butcher shops everywhere and slaughter houses.

You wouldn't have gambling facilities everywhere.

You wouldn't have financial credit facilities everywhere to burden people with debt.

You wouldn't have sports worship everywhere.

You wouldn't have skyscrapers everywhere and have people live in crowded cities.

You wouldn't have false religion everywhere, misdirecting the people.

You wouldn't have a cosmetic industry, cheating women out of billions of dollars, with promises of defeating the aging process.

You wouldn't have the drug and alcohol problems in society, that destroy families.

You wont find people preaching the madness of atheism especially in a public forum, and misdirecting the children that will be our next generation.

All this and a lot more is an atheistic society........and you know this so dont fain ignorance, unless you are.

Originally posted by vishvahetu
Your comment is dishonest because:

Most medical research is to cheat death, and no one has ever cheated death....therefore its all materialistic and nonsense.

In a spiritual society you wouldn't have clubs pubs and bars everywhere.

You wouldn't have butcher shops everywhere and slaughter houses.

You wouldn't have gambling facilities everywher ...[text shortened]... s an atheistic society........and you know this so dont fain ignorance, unless you are.

"You wont find people preaching the madness of atheism especially in a public forum,.."

What's there to preach? There's only one line in their gospel, "There is no God".

Originally posted by josephw
[b]"You wont find people preaching the madness of atheism especially in a public forum,.."

What's there to preach? There's only one line in their gospel, "There is no God".[/b]

Yes and thats why its baseless and dishonest.... thank you.

Originally posted by vishvahetu
Yes and thats why its baseless and dishonest.... thank you.

Well, at least we agree on something! 😉

Originally posted by josephw
[b]"You wont find people preaching the madness of atheism especially in a public forum,.."

What's there to preach? There's only one line in their gospel, "There is no God".[/b]

that isn't a gospel

Originally posted by vishvahetu
Your comment is dishonest because:

Most medical research is to cheat death, and no one has ever cheated death....therefore its all materialistic and nonsense.

In a spiritual society you wouldn't have clubs pubs and bars everywhere.

You wouldn't have butcher shops everywhere and slaughter houses.

You wouldn't have gambling facilities everywher s an atheistic society........and you know this so dont fain ignorance, unless you are.

“...Most medical research is to cheat death, and no one has ever cheated death....therefore its all materialistic and nonsense. ...”

I take it what you mean by “cheat death” is not “delay death” but rather “achieve immortality” for surely you would not deny that medicine can delay death! I can tell you just for starters that medicine has already delayed my death at least twice.
But that means you are saying that “ Most medical research is to….“achieve mortality”! -which is clearly false.
Most medical research is not to achieve immortality and, secondly, it has nothing to do with “materialistic”.

Would you disapprove of giving a very young child medicine for curing cancer because it is “materialistic” (somehow) ?
Or do you think it is a good thing to let the child suffer and die a horrible death because your religion disapproves of science?

“...In a spiritual society you wouldn't have clubs pubs and bars everywhere.

You wouldn't have butcher shops everywhere and slaughter houses.

You wouldn't have gambling facilities everywhere.

You wouldn't have financial credit facilities everywhere to burden people with debt.

You wouldn't have sports worship everywhere.

You wouldn't have skyscrapers everywhere and have people live in crowded cities.

You wouldn't have false religion everywhere, misdirecting the people.

You wouldn't have a cosmetic industry, cheating women out of billions of dollars, with promises of defeating the aging process.

You wouldn't have the drug and alcohol problems in society, that destroy families. ...”

...and also in my world that I want (and have at least in a local sense) you would have none of the above.
...and none of the above comes with atheism any more than theism; none of the above have anything to do with atheism or theism.

Originally posted by Andrew Hamilton
“...Most medical research is to cheat death, and no one has ever cheated death....therefore its all materialistic and nonsense. ...”

I take it what you mean by “cheat death” is not “delay death” but rather “achieve immortality” for surely you would not deny that medicine can delay death! I can tell you just for starters that medicine has already d ism any more than theism; none of the above have anything to do with atheism or theism.

All the things I mentioned and much more would not be found in a spiritual society.....accept for a few who live on the fringe and are prone to break laws.

These things are conducive with an atheistic society, and also a society where there is substitute religion.

You are thinking that a spiritual society is the same as a substitute religious society, but it isn't.

Substitute religion (Christianity Islam Judaism) are just as bad as atheism, because they teach error and misdirect the people.

So atheism misdirects the people, and so does substitute religion.

So the society that I am presenting is spiritual, and is being directed by the true religion of Vedanta Sutra.

Therefore your comment that these things do not have anything to do with atheism or theism is false........and in the Vedic society they would not be present, and would be conspicuous by their absence.

Originally posted by Andrew Hamilton
that isn't a gospel

Dah! 😕

Originally posted by vishvahetu
All the things I mentioned and much more would not be found in a spiritual society.....accept for a few who live on the fringe and are prone to break laws.

These things are conducive with an atheistic society, and also a society where there is substitute religion.

You are thinking that a spiritual society is the same as a substitute religious socie ...[text shortened]... .and in the Vedic society they would not be present, and would be conspicuous by their absence.

So if you were in absolute control of the entire planetary human population, you would have no science, no sports, no other religions, no games, no gambling halls, etc. I can not imagine a better recipe for societal collapse. I suppose if someone plays an instrument and couldn't prove the tune was about your god, you would take the instrument to a crushing machine. Oops, forgot, you can't have crushing machine in your world. Let's see, you would charge up to that obviously dishonest musician and stomp the crap out of her instrument and then the musician herself for daring to do something non-spiritual.

So nobody would need heart transplants, nobody would need appendectomies, nobody would need wounds healed, nobody would need to take ANY medicine because the spiritual way of life is the only way to live.

So, assuming all that is true, how much longer does the Buddhist live and how many Buddhists don't take medicine.

Originally posted by Andrew Hamilton
“...Most medical research is to cheat death, and no one has ever cheated death....therefore its all materialistic and nonsense. ...”

I take it what you mean by “cheat death” is not “delay death” but rather “achieve immortality” for surely you would not deny that medicine can delay death! I can tell you just for starters that medicine has already d ...[text shortened]... ism any more than theism; none of the above have anything to do with atheism or theism.

“...But that means you are saying that “ Most medical research is to….“achieve mortality”! -which is clearly false. ...”

sorry, misprint! “achieve mortality” should, of course, have been “achieve immortality”

Originally posted by vishvahetu
All the things I mentioned and much more would not be found in a spiritual society.....accept for a few who live on the fringe and are prone to break laws.

These things are conducive with an atheistic society, and also a society where there is substitute religion.

You are thinking that a spiritual society is the same as a substitute religious socie ...[text shortened]... .and in the Vedic society they would not be present, and would be conspicuous by their absence.

As usual, you just stated all your usual opinions but no argument nor premise to back them up.
How do you know that all what you said before the word “therefore” is correct? -Because the scriptures just say so?
All your flawed assumptions are also baseless.

Originally posted by sonhouse
So if you were in absolute control of the entire planetary human population, you would have no science, no sports, no other religions, no games, no gambling halls, etc. I can not imagine a better recipe for societal collapse. I suppose if someone plays an instrument and couldn't prove the tune was about your god, you would take the instrument to a crushing is true, how much longer does the Buddhist live and how many Buddhists don't take medicine.

The Vedas have the greatest healing practices ( Ayur Veda) which has been with mankind from the beginning of creation.

In a spiritual society everyone knows the purpose of life, and enthusiastically engages in proper behavior, but you will always get fringe dwellers who want to break the law, and they would be the minority.

Their are Vedic sports, and did you know that chess is coming from the Vedas, and by playing chess you are engaging in a Vedic recreational activity.

And without the Vedas you would not have your favorite pastime (chess)

Originally posted by vishvahetu
The Vedas have the greatest healing practices ( Ayur Veda) which has been with mankind from the beginning of creation.

In a spiritual society everyone knows the purpose of life, and enthusiastically engages in proper behavior, but you will always get fringe dwellers who want to break the law, and they would be the minority.

Their are Vedic sports, a ...[text shortened]... recreational activity.

And without the Vedas you would not have your favorite pastime (chess)

The Vedas have the greatest healing practices

Define "greatest" in this context, and provide some references to back up this claim

In a spiritual society everyone knows the purpose of life, and enthusiastically engages in proper behavior, but you will always get fringe dwellers who want to break the law, and they would be the minority.

Name any spiritual society to which you are referring and provide some references/evidence to back up this claim

Their are Vedic sports...

So what?

...and did you know that chess is coming from the Vedas, and by playing chess you are engaging in a Vedic recreational activity.

So what, provide references and evidence of this claim

Originally posted by divegeester
[b]The Vedas have the greatest healing practices

Define "greatest" in this context, and provide some references to back up this claim

In a spiritual society everyone knows the purpose of life, and enthusiastically engages in proper behavior, but you will always get fringe dwellers who want to break the law, and they would be the minority.[/b ...[text shortened]... n a Vedic recreational activity.

So what, provide references and evidence of this claim[/b]

Why do I bother with you?.......because i think sooner or later you will catch on to the common sense that I speak of.

But alas!.....you are only here to create argument and conflict and have no interest at all in the spiritual, because if you did you would have a totally different attitude...... (sane)

I think I will let your questions (attacks) pass by, until your attitude improves.