Thoughts and prayers

Originally posted by KellyJay
Yea, good things happen to bad people and bad things happen to good ones so you
and others don't understand that so God is evil? If you want to have that discussion
have it in another thread, why drag that into this one?
Kelly

I said nothing about God being evil. I was merely trying to understand what you said.

To simplify my question, why you say "May God help us..." are you merely wishing us well, or are you genuinely trying to get God to help us, or does it have some other meaning I am missing?

Originally posted by rwingett
Ah, now we're getting somewhere. A forthright admission that god does, in fact, lack one of the three 'omni' attributes. It always seems that its omnibenevolence that gets pitched out in order to overcome the problem of evil. I guess its easier to imagine a god that is not all loving than it is for a god who is not all powerful or all knowing. But if god is not all loving, is he worth worshiping? Or should he just be feared and propitiated?

The concept of God as the Superman of all supermen of DC Comics is rather a primitive concept, don't you think ?Making fun of such a concept is equally primitive.
Men have idealized God in their own image as an all powerful,all benevolent and all knowing Being,nothing basically wrong in that.It is an honest effort on the part of a speck of dust in the vast lonely Universe gazing at the stars in spite of his weaknesses but dreaming of things and then imagining God to possess these masterly attributes.It is a good enough beginning to a Speculation.
Faith in God has meant for Man several good things and several bad things.The bad things in human life like injustice,cruelty,children being born blind or with various deadly syndromes like Mongolism, the squalor of poverty,unhappiness etc. have not deterred believers all over the world to say that" God thy Will will be done". It has strengthened their resolve to cope up with the miseries of Life more than any popping of pills that Science ever designed.Martyrs to the respective religious causes have died at the hands of fellow religious fanatics, crying out to their own God. So what ?
How does that disprove the existence of God ?
We cannot grasp God in our Human framework is all one can say. Our Language and mind is not capable to even envision God is all one can say.

Originally posted by rvsakhadeo
The concept of God as the Superman of all supermen of DC Comics is rather a primitive concept, don't you think ?Making fun of such a concept is equally primitive.
Men have idealized God in their own image as an all powerful,all benevolent and all knowing Being,nothing basically wrong in that.It is an honest effort on the part of a speck of dust in the v ll one can say. Our Language and mind is not capable to even envision God is all one can say.

If there is an all powerfui God and he is not benevolent, then different degrees of hell await us all for all eternity. In fact, why would we then have any happiness at all?

Originally posted by whodey
If there is an all powerfui God and he is not benevolent, then different degrees of hell await us all for all eternity. In fact, why would we then have any happiness at all?

God is beyond conception, let alone description ! Human mind is too petty a thing compared to the majesty of the existence of God.
Yes," He giveth and he taketh away,blessed be the name of God",does not your religion say so? God is the action behind all things in this world,good or bad i.e good or bad as per human conception.
In our Gita he says I am the destruction of All,for all time to come !
The three actions of God namely Creation,Sustenance and Destruction are represented by Brahma,Vishnu,Mahesh which is the holy trinity of Hinduism.
In Gita ,he says that I make every living being to go round and round,up and down on the wheel of Karma. Born in this world you have to bear fruits of your Karma,they be good or bad.

Originally posted by rvsakhadeo
The concept of God as the Superman of all supermen of DC Comics is rather a primitive concept, don't you think ?Making fun of such a concept is equally primitive.
Men have idealized God in their own image as an all powerful,all benevolent and all knowing Being,nothing basically wrong in that.It is an honest effort on the part of a speck of dust in the v ll one can say. Our Language and mind is not capable to even envision God is all one can say.

Martyrs to the respective religious causes have died at the hands of fellow religious fanatics, crying out to their own God. So what ?

Maybe I'm not understanding your intended meaning, but it seems you have no problem with people killing others due to fanatical religious beliefs. Have you no compassion for those "who have been/will be" murdered or those close to the victims?

Originally posted by rwingett
Why didn't god prevent the earthquake? If god is all-loving, then why are there earthquakes at all?

..... and the judge deliver thee to the officer, and the officer cast thee into prison. I tell thee, thou shalt not depart thence, till thou hast paid the very last mite. And there were present at that season some that told Him of the Galilaeans, whose blood Pilate had mingled with their sacrifices. And Jesus answering said unto them, Suppose ye that these Galilaeans were sinners above all the Galilaeans, because they suffered such things? I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish. Or those eighteen, upon whom the tower in Siloam fell, and slew them, think ye that they were sinners above all men that dwelt in Jerusalem? I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish. He spake also..... So God does not do as you think he should. Do you help those you have the ability to help?

Originally posted by twhitehead
I said nothing about God being evil. I was merely trying to understand what you said.

To simplify my question, why you say "May God help us..." are you merely wishing us well, or are you genuinely trying to get God to help us, or does it have some other meaning I am missing?

I was asking for God help yes. Unlike with man we sometimes do things wanting to
do the right thing but will make it worse. Asking for God to lead as we go about
what we need to do, is asking for direction/wisdom that our help not in the end
make matters far worse than before we started helping.
Kelly

Originally posted by twhitehead
I think we all wish the best for those who have survived and morn those who have died. But the fact that you as a Christian does, and the way you expressed it, raises many philosophical or theological questions.

When you say "May God help us..." are you asking God to help us? If so, why tell us not God directly? Are you encouraging us to ask God to hel ...[text shortened]... to help us?
Or is it equivalent to 'good wishes' as in "may you live long and prosper"?

I want to say I'm sorry to you too, I read your post right after someone else' and
I basically took your post to mean something you were not saying, my bad!
Kelly

Originally posted by ThinkOfOne
[b]Martyrs to the respective religious causes have died at the hands of fellow religious fanatics, crying out to their own God. So what ?

Maybe I'm not understanding your intended meaning, but it seems you have no problem with people killing others due to fanatical religious beliefs. Have you no compassion for those "who have been/will be" murdered or those close to the victims?[/b]

I say that I have full compassion for all victims of religious strife. Countless people all over the world have been killed in the name of Religion esp. Organised Religion. It is an enormous tragedy. But how does that disprove the existence of God ?

Originally posted by rvsakhadeo
God is beyond conception, let alone description ! Human mind is too petty a thing compared to the majesty of the existence of God.
Yes," He giveth and he taketh away,blessed be the name of God",does not your religion say so? God is the action behind all things in this world,good or bad i.e good or bad as per human conception.
In our Gita he says I am th ...[text shortened]... wheel of Karma. Born in this world you have to bear fruits of your Karma,they be good or bad.

...for "He" is the lover and the beloved.

And as above so below.

Originally posted by rvsakhadeo
Men have idealized God in their own image as an all powerful,all benevolent and all knowing Being,nothing basically wrong in that

I thought God idealised man in 'his' own image? So the God believing religions try to impose, don't they?

There is something wrong, indeed, in what you say.

Man only cries out to a figment when times are bad. Otherwise, things are 'just fine'!

Complete rubbish.

All knowing? What is all knowing? A figment of man's imagination, in times of dire need, when man feels a threat of not understanding human instinct, as a slightly more developed 'animal' than others?

Just accept it - There is no God, as man's ideas created. If there was, to take away from humanism, any iota of a God - we wouldn't be here, simple as!

Of course, this is my humble opinion.... and you are entitled to yours.

-m.

Originally posted by mikelom
I thought God idealised man in 'his' own image? So the God believing religions try to impose, don't they?

There is something wrong, indeed, in what you say.

Man only cries out to a figment when times are bad. Otherwise, things are 'just fine'!

Complete rubbish.

All knowing? What is all knowing? A figment of man's imagination, in times of dire ne ...[text shortened]... as!

Of course, this is my humble opinion.... and you are entitled to yours.

-m.

Let me recapitulate what I have said to Ringett:-
Followers of Organised Religions all over the World have fought bloody wars with each other resulting in great bloodshed,nobody can dispute that. There have been many cruelties and injustices done by people in the name of Religion,no doubt about that. Yes, certain religions( not all) have tried to impose their conception of God on others.
But a great many good things,too, have been done in the name of Religions by their followers and believers in God. The Lives of the believers all over the World have been immensely enriched by their belief in God,they have fought personal misfortunes with far greater courage and tenacity than they would have,had they not believed in God. All the misfortunes of Humanity,however, do not disprove the existence of God. Now ,what is wrong in my thinking ?

Originally posted by rvsakhadeo
I say that I have full compassion for all victims of religious strife. Countless people all over the world have been killed in the name of Religion esp. Organised Religion. It is an enormous tragedy. But how does that disprove the existence of God ?

Thanks for clearing that up. Evidently your "So what?" was meant to apply to the question in the paragraph immediately following. The way it was written, it seemed to apply to the paragraph in which it was contained which I hoped wasn't your intended meaning.

Originally posted by rvsakhadeo
The concept of God as the Superman of all supermen of DC Comics is rather a primitive concept, don't you think ?Making fun of such a concept is equally primitive.
Men have idealized God in their own image as an all powerful,all benevolent and all knowing Being,nothing basically wrong in that.It is an honest effort on the part of a speck of dust in the v ...[text shortened]... ll one can say. Our Language and mind is not capable to even envision God is all one can say.

If god is incapable of being envisioned, then what basis do you have for supposing that he/it even exists?

Originally posted by rvsakhadeo
Let me recapitulate what I have said to Ringett:-
Followers of Organised Religions all over the World have fought bloody wars with each other resulting in great bloodshed,nobody can dispute that. There have been many cruelties and injustices done by people in the name of Religion,no doubt about that. Yes, certain religions( not all) have tried to impose ...[text shortened]... s of Humanity,however, do not disprove the existence of God. Now ,what is wrong in my thinking ?

From what I can tell, RW's post was arguing against the conception that God is omnipotent AND omiscient AND omnibenevolent rather than an attempt to "disprove the existence of God."

Also, you seem to be arguing that while "many cruelties and injustices" have been done in the "name of Religion" many "good" things have also occured. There are problems with your argument.

For example, let's take the premise that God is omnibenevolent. Then if the "followers and believers in God" had an accurate conception of God, they would only do "good". However this is clearly not the case. They must not have an accurate conception of God.

Also, note that your examples of "good" are strictly self-serving:
"The Lives of the believers all over the World have been immensely enriched by their belief in God,they have fought personal misfortunes with far greater courage and tenacity than they would have,had they not believed in God."
Is self-serving truly "good"?