20 Apr 07
Originally posted by josephwAnd here it is. Apparently if you commit a crime you aren't a proper human being. This is the same mentality behind war crimes (those guys aren't proper human beings or they'd be on our side), behind racial attacks (black aren't proper people) and Xenophobia (they are savages).
You must live in a sheltered world. Have you ever been around criminals? They are unreliable, untrustworthy, and liars. They are not fit to be treated with anything like respect or dignity. Murderers, at the very least, should be locked up for life.
Who are you to judge who is deserving of respect or dignity? Who are you to judge who is deserving of death?
20 Apr 07
Originally posted by XanthosNZDo you believe in the law? We have courts that meet out justice.
And here it is. Apparently if you commit a crime you aren't a proper human being. This is the same mentality behind war crimes (those guys aren't proper human beings or they'd be on our side), behind racial attacks (black aren't proper people) and Xenophobia (they are savages).
Who are you to judge who is deserving of respect or dignity? Who are you to judge who is deserving of death?
And don't talk so foolish. We're talking about criminals. When you start making comparisons, like you did, it is obviously because you have a weak argument and have to resort to irrational accusations.
20 Apr 07
Originally posted by josephwYou said that criminals aren't worthy of respect or dignity. That's you making that judgement. Why?
Do you believe in the law? We have courts that meet out justice.
And don't talk so foolish. We're talking about criminals. When you start making comparisons, like you did, it is obviously because you have a weak argument and have to resort to irrational accusations.
And I believe in the law of my country, where we don't execute people or convict them of crimes they didn't commit (for the most part).
20 Apr 07
Originally posted by XanthosNZI also asked,(dottewell), if he had ever had any exposure to criminals.
You said that criminals aren't worthy of respect or dignity. That's you making that judgement. Why?
And I believe in the law of my country, where we don't execute people or convict them of crimes they didn't commit (for the most part).
Have you? I have. And I can and do make judgements based on my experience with them.
When someone commits murder, and is punished appropriately, then we show our respect for life. That is the dignified thing to do. Anything less IS barbaric.
20 Apr 07
Originally posted by josephwPrimitive types?
So what is so wrong with executing murderers? One would think, as an atheist and evolutionist, you would be all for removing the more primitive types that KILL people. It's the civilized thing to do!
You obviously don't know what justice is.
As a christian I read and believe the whole bible. And Jesus wasn't the pacifist everybody tries to make him out to be. He kept the law, and that means he also was for it's enforcement.
What the?
This notion of Darwinism as the 'survival of the fittest' is out of date and horribly irrelevant to the debate about capital punishment. I don't want to remove anyone.
Rather I think it demonstrates the civility of a society when they can make the decision NOT to kill another for whatever reason.
And by the way, I'm not a pacifist.
20 Apr 07
Originally posted by josephwActually I have met a murderer. A really nice gentle soul. Did his time and came out of prison looking to redeem his life and help others turn their lives around and is doing a quite remarkable job at it. He has a loving wife and two wonderful kids. It's kind of nice to see the Gospel lived out, wouldn't you say?
You must live in a sheltered world. Have you ever been around criminals? They are unreliable, untrustworthy, and liars. They are not fit to be treated with anything like respect or dignity. Murderers, at the very least, should be locked up for life.
20 Apr 07
Originally posted by josephwYou've turned things on their head. Executing murderers shows respect for life and to not do so is barbaric? That's ridiculous.
I also asked,(dottewell), if he had ever had any exposure to criminals.
Have you? I have. And I can and do make judgements based on my experience with them.
When someone commits murder, and is punished appropriately, then we show our respect for life. That is the dignified thing to do. Anything less IS barbaric.
You still haven't addressed the point of the wrongly convicted. Or make a logical argument for any of your moral views.
20 Apr 07
Originally posted by amannionWe think differently. We vote in free domacratic elections, and we make laws to govern society. Majority rules. If the majority says to exicute murderers then that's what we do.
Primitive types?
What the?
This notion of Darwinism as the 'survival of the fittest' is out of date and horribly irrelevant to the debate about capital punishment. I don't want to remove anyone.
Rather I think it demonstrates the civility of a society when they can make the decision NOT to kill another for whatever reason.
And by the way, I'm not a pacifist.
But I guess we could argue all day whether it's right or wrong.
Now I'm going to bed. Good night! 😴
20 Apr 07
Originally posted by josephwSo abortion is OK because we have laws supporting it that are backed up by democratic elections?
We think differently. We vote in free domacratic elections, and we make laws to govern society. Majority rules. If the majority says to exicute murderers then that's what we do.
But I guess we could argue all day whether it's right or wrong.
Now I'm going to bed. Good night! 😴
20 Apr 07
1 edit
Originally posted by josephwIf the majority of the people made the practice of Christianity a crime that would be fine by you?
We think differently. We vote in free domacratic elections, and we make laws to govern society. Majority rules. If the majority says to exicute murderers then that's what we do.
But I guess we could argue all day whether it's right or wrong.
Now I'm going to bed. Good night! 😴
EDIT: Kirksey has a better example.
20 Apr 07
There are plenty of reasons against capital punishment that have nothing to do with morals, let alone religion:
Thread 63133
However, when voicing my opinion against the death penalty, I draw on both religious and practical purposes. And getting back to the first post, I think the mindset of much of the OT and its authors was very unforgiving and unsympathetic regarding crime. Not to mention the fact that some of the OT is probably mythology, but that's another story. No, I think Christians, at least, should look to the words of Jesus and attempt, at the least, to "love our enemies."
20 Apr 07
Originally posted by dottewellI believe there is a bottom line, with an atheist they are the bottom
I don't really understand your post, but surely you can see this isn't what I'm saying?
line, and why they do they bottom it out? Is it only personal taste,
beyond that you have not said anything to make me think otherwise.
Kelly
20 Apr 07
Just as a matter of interest. Why do theists not commit murder more regularly? Surely for a theist, death is not nearly as bad as it is for an atheist as it isn't really death at all but in many cases going to heaven!
So if you kill a Christian then all you are really doing is speeding his path to heaven and if his friends and loved ones are Christian then they will be glad for him and not sad.
I know that you would be breaking a commandment but Christians break the other commandments quite readily and even claim that they are incapable of avoiding sin. So whats so bad about murder?