08 Aug 05
Originally posted by sonhouse
And I don't limit my critique to christianity, Muslims get my full share
of condemnation also. These so-called religions are nothing but
a bunch of people who see an opportunity to establish a huge power
base so their personal future is secure and they get unspeakably
sinister power over unsuspecting sheep of the followers.
Congrats..
You cracked the conspiracy of religion.. shheeeshhh.. wish I can flush your post down the drain..
09 Aug 05
Originally posted by David CI could not do so, and I quote, "as a good Christian". Such a notion is contrary to the very premise that the individual is, and must be, soley responsible for their individual spiritual well being. I know this is begging the question a bit, in as much as it is intended (i.e. hypothetical). So, I will elaborate.
If you could, as a good Christian, sacrifice your salvation for the salvation of another, would you do it? If so, where would you draw the line? For instance, would you sacrifice your salvation for the soul of a innocent child killed by a sexual predator? Or an Islamic suicide bomber? Why or why not?
I would not.....for anyone. Not my wife. Not my kids. No one. To do so, by my personal beliefs, would be to rob that individual of the very purpose of their lives. I would not consider such an act to be an act of kindness. I would expect likewise from any one else who shares my beliefs. If the situation were reversed, if I had a say in the matter I would absolutely refuse the salvation of another person. I will happily meet my maker in the end, be my eternity heaven, hell, or whatever, and I will not ask anything of any mortal between me and my god. My soul is between me and my God alone, it is neither anyone elses business nor anyone elses burden.
I am happy to have kind hearted individuals in this life who attempt to pass on wisdom to me, guide me towards what they believe is Gods will, etc. However, I refuse any notion of anyone "making" me be anything at all. Likewise, I refuse the responsibility of that which is and should be the sole business between the individual creation and its maker. Individual accountability, just as it should be.
09 Aug 05
Originally posted by sonhousePerhaps this would have better expressed in a PM, as I do not see how it relates to the topic at all. If you wish to discuss this in the forums, I suggest starting a thread about it. I would be happy to read the book and then discuss it with you. Alternatively, you will find many threads around here that discuss the "errors" of Christianity and other mainstream religions that you could share your ideas in.
Try reading a book called "Jesus Lived in India"
he makes a good case that would blow christianity out of the water.
Of course it would not stop the disease that is christianity but the
thesis is Jesus did not die on the cross, was covered with healing
herbs like aloe and recovered enough to make a miraculous
appearance and then, realizing he would ...[text shortened]... one can get to
the burial site right now because of the fighting in the area around
Kashmir.
Pax Vobiscum,
Omnislash
09 Aug 05
Originally posted by sonhouseI get it you read a book once so that proves Christianity wrong.
Try reading a book called "Jesus Lived in India"
he makes a good case that would blow christianity out of the water.
Of course it would not stop the disease that is christianity but the
thesis is Jesus did not die on the cross, was covered with healing
herbs like aloe and recovered enough to make a miraculous
appearance and then, realizing he would ...[text shortened]... one can get to
the burial site right now because of the fighting in the area around
Kashmir.
Kelly
09 Aug 05
Originally posted by OmnislashWowsers! I wish I said that!
I could not do so, and I quote, "as a good Christian". Such a notion is contrary to the very premise that the individual is, and must be, soley responsible for their individual spiritual well being. I know this is begging the question a bit, in as much as it is intended (i.e. hypothetical). So, I will elaborate.
I would not.....for anyone. Not my wif ...[text shortened]... between the individual creation and its maker. Individual accountability, just as it should be.
You're right of course. Earning someone else's salvation would be a violation of their free will. Even God Himself only makes the path clear and invites the sinner to repent.
10 Aug 05
Originally posted by Joe FistYou're absolutely right, and I apologize to the forum regulars. I must have been really tired that night. It's a cheap attempt to get some theist-type to admit to moral relativity. In the future, I'll put more thought in to any topics I start. Deal?
No offense but I don't think the question really offers much for discussion whether it is hypothetical or not?
Thanks to Omnislash, who took time to post a thoughtful reply.
10 Aug 05
Originally posted by KellyJayI'm with Kelly on this one (!!!).
My salvation is not mine to give, my life is, but my salvation belongs
to Jesus the one who won it for me.
Kelly
In terms of any Christian theology that I've ever heard of, the question simply doesn't
make sense. You cannot barter with God regarding salvation; it is a gift, freely given,
unearned by one's merits. So, since you cannot even negotiate even your own salvation,
the idea of negotiating for someone else's is nonsensical.
I'm not trying to be critical of your question; I am just saying it doesn't make sense
in the context of Christianity.
Nemesio
10 Aug 05
I agree. I'd also add a slight variation - BECAUSE it's a free gift, it doesn't make sense to talk about salvation as if it is a finite quantity or in short supply, such that one might have to give it up for the sake of another.
But I also agree it was an interesting question, so don't beat yourself up about asking it.
10 Aug 05
Originally posted by sonhouseI love it when people try to suggest the Romans didn't know how to crucify people properly - like it was something they thought they'd try out for fun one Passover.
Try reading a book called "Jesus Lived in India"
he makes a good case that would blow christianity out of the water.
Of course it would not stop the disease that is christianity but the
thesis is Jesus did not die on the cross, was covered with healing
herbs like aloe and recovered enough to make a miraculous
appearance and then, realizing he would ...[text shortened]... one can get to
the burial site right now because of the fighting in the area around
Kashmir.