02 Sep 09
Originally posted by jaywillahhh, the last resort of the desperate, resorting to subjective experience, how predictable!
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That is so funny. How many times have we said that trinitarians can't even agree on something they base their whole belief on......
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Nice try. But not quite good enough.
I would say that we base our belief on the EXPERIENCE of the Triune God.
We experience that G ...[text shortened]... stle John said we know that we abide in God and He in us by the Spirit that He has given to us.[/b]
02 Sep 09
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Originally posted by jaywillOk..so now this spirit is in us? Is this the Holy Spirit or just some other spirit?
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That is so funny. How many times have we said that trinitarians can't even agree on something they base their whole belief on......
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Nice try. But not quite good enough.
I would say that we base our belief on the EXPERIENCE of the Triune God.
We experience that G ...[text shortened]... stle John said we know that we abide in God and He in us by the Spirit that He has given to us.[/b]
02 Sep 09
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Originally posted by robbie carrobie==================================
vines expository, the bible makes no mention of a person ever being poured out and entering another person, but it is no use Jaywill, me and my Texan brother are high on victory, the spirit is Gods spirit, Romans 8:11 confirms this, Christ did not resurrect himself, God did, with his Holy spirit, the verse is quite clear, your house is divided, Deuc ereign lord of the universe, Jehovah himself, not the Christ as you have erroneously asserted!
vines expository, the bible makes no mention of a person ever being poured out and entering another person, but it is no use Jaywill, me and my Texan brother are high on victory, the spirit is Gods spirit, Romans 8:11 confirms this, Christ did not resurrect himself, God did, with his Holy spirit, the verse is quite clear, your house is divided, Deucer claims that it is not a person, never has been, you are claiming that it is! now your house is abandoned to you! not only that, but in view of Romans 8:11, we now have every reason to believe that 'the Lord', in your translation is none other than the sovereign lord of the universe, Jehovah himself, not the Christ as you have erroneously asserted!
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I do not have a Vines Expository word study or whatever you have by Mr. Vines. I know of Mr. Vines.
But the real issue here is not what Vines didn't say but what the Bible says.
But if you really think I should address what Mr. Vine wrote, let's see what I can do to contribute to that aspect of the discussion latter.
Now addressing the complaint of Jesus not resurrecting Himself. Well, it is kind of mysterious Robbie. You have to admit that Jesus did speak about having the authority and/or ability to lay down His life and taking it up again:
" Destroy this temple and in three days I will raise it up." (John 2:18)
[b]"No one takes it [ His life ] away from Me, but I lay it down of Myself. I have authority to lay it down, and I have authority to take it again. This commandment I received from My Father." (John 10:18) [/b]
That comes very close to Christ raising Himself.
As far as the entering of one Person (borrowing the term) into another - John 14:23 says that Christ and His Father as the divine "WE" will come to make an abode with the one who loves Christ.
Except for Mr. Vine's saying or not saying something, these matters have now been addressed.
02 Sep 09
Originally posted by robbie carrobieso are you saying that God is not all powerful?
is that the best you Lords of Dasrkness can present, with God all things are possible? pah, it is to laugh!
the bible compares holy spirit to water,
(Isaiah 44:3) . . .For I shall pour out water upon the thirsty one, and trickling streams upon the dry place. I shall pour out my spirit upon your seed, and my blessing upon your descendants.
w ...[text shortened]... pirit is not a person and the trinity is a jive turkey of a doctrine on thanksgiving day!
02 Sep 09
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Originally posted by robbie carrobieI don't want you to get another poster confused with me or vica versa.
i am saying that it was Gods Holy spirit that raised the Christ up, when he was dead, not the 'spirit of Christ, or 'Christ the spirit' as you people are want to say!
However, it has been pointed out to you BEFORE, that Paul used these terms in an equivalent way.
The Spirit of God,
The Spirit of Christ,
Christ,
The Spirit of the One who raised Christ Jesus from the dead.
I will not quote it again for you. Look at Romans 8:9-11. This is all repetition now. And the factious man after the first and second admonition we are to refuse.
And I have told you many times directly from the New Testament - "the last Adam became a life giving Spirit" (1 Cor. 15:45)
Who is the life giving Spirit ? He is the Holy Spirit. I could say more. But it is wasting of words on you for sure.
02 Sep 09
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at Romans chapter 8:11. who is it and what medium is used that raises Christ from the dead? it is a very simple and straightforward question, who is it.
here is the verse,
(Romans 8:11) . . .If, now, the spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwells in you, he that raised up Christ Jesus from the dead will also make your mortal bodies alive through his spirit that resides in you.
02 Sep 09
Originally posted by robbie carrobieRobbie, we're finished.
at Romans chapter 8:11. who is it and what medium is used that raises Christ from the dead? it is a very simple and straightforward question, who is it.
here is the verse,
(Romans 8:11) . . .If, now, the spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwells in you, he that raised up Christ Jesus from the dead will also make your mortal bodies alive through his spirit that resides in you.
I will not write to you any more.
Goodbye.
02 Sep 09
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Originally posted by jaywillok jaywill as you wish, i do not think that i have been offensive, nor do i think that the question is raised in such a way that would cause offence. perhaps it is because it is such a powerful refutation of the trinity, i do not know, but if you do not want to talk to me, i wish you well, and hope and pray that you shall come to an accurate knowledge of truth - kind regards Robbie.
Robbie, we're finished.
I will not write to you any more.
Goodbye.
does anyone else think that i am being unreasonable?
03 Sep 09
Originally posted by robbie carrobieWow..he gave up. Guess he's tired of fighting for the trinity thing.
ok jaywill as you wish, i do not think that i have been offensive, nor do i think that the question is raised in such a way that would cause offence. perhaps it is because it is such a powerful refutation of the trinity, i do not know, but if you do not want to talk to me, i wish you well, and hope and pray that you shall come to an accurate knowledge of truth - kind regards Robbie.
does anyone else think that i am being unreasonable?
03 Sep 09
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Originally posted by galveston75yes another poor trinitarian bites the dust! shall Deucer the Hutt fight on, or shall we claim victory in the name of truth and valour! it is often the way of it, when one is presented with a logical argument and all one has at ones disposal is an argument with emotional content, based on an experience type of thing. emotionalism I do not think can stand in the way of reason.
Wow..he gave up. Guess he's tired of fighting for the trinity thing.
03 Sep 09
Originally posted by robbie carrobieWell it's sad but they are trying and it is from the heart. But they have some of the pieces of the puzzle right but just to many others that don't fit.
yes another poor trinitarian bites the dust! shall Deucer the Hutt fight on, or shall we claim victory in the name of truth and valour! it is often the way of it, when one is presented with a logical argument and all one has at ones disposal is an argument with emotional content, based on an experience type of thing. emotionalism I do not think can stand in the way of reason.
And as was mentioned tha tthe ydon't even agree among themselve what the trinity is, and that's not the way the truth can be. Jesus even said that would be one of the traights of his flowers, it would be their unity.
I know we've never disagreed on anything here and it's really comforting to know that no matter where one goes in this world, every Witnwess will believe the same, every meeting is the same, every hope the same.