03 Sep 09
Originally posted by jaywillYou don't have to reject any of it. Jesus is also refered to as a Lord as is Jehovah. They can both be a Lord just as the Bible says they are both a God. Satan is a God but by no means is he the almighty God as is not Jesus. Lord is just a title that even humans use.
Okay. I just wrote a lot but lost it in a brief electrical black out. Maybe it was sovereign of the Lord.
So then. We'll take it a step at a time and you will help answer.
First:
Does Christ being the image of God in [b]2 Cor. 4:4 make Christ NOT the Lord in verse 5 ?
Are you saying that IF I accept that Christ is the image of God in 4:4 ...[text shortened]...
That is my first question. Do I have to reject one teaching in order to accept the other ?[/b]
03 Sep 09
2 edits
Originally posted by galveston75==================================
You don't have to reject any of it. Jesus is also refered to as a Lord as is Jehovah. They can both be a Lord just as the Bible says they are both a God. Satan is a God but by no means is he the almighty God as is not Jesus. Lord is just a title that even humans use.
You don't have to reject any of it.
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Excellent so far. I can let the word of God ascend ABOVE my intellect. Rather than give my logic and reasoning ability the HIGHER place and dictate DOWN to the LOWER word of God what is and what is not permissible, I can allow the HIGHER place to the utterance of the Bible.
Good. I want to believe all the the Scriptures has to teach me.
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Jesus is also refered to as a Lord as is Jehovah.
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Question here: When the Bible speaks of "One Lord" (Ephesians 4:5) should I regard that as a mistake on the Apostle Paul's part? Should I make a mental change and insert "(More than one) Lord, one faith, one baptism, one God and Father of all ..."? .
Does the Christian church acknowledge that there she has TWO or MORE Lords ?
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They can both be a Lord just as the Bible says they are both a God.
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When Paul informs the Christian church in Ephesus "One Lord, one faith, one baptism, one God and Father of all ..." should I mentally insert there "(More than one God) and Father of all ...?
Do I need to make that kind of ajustment to accomodate multiple Gods in the Bible ?
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Satan is a God but by no means is he the almighty God as is not Jesus. Lord is just a title that even humans use.
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Of course there is more than one Jesus in the New Testament.
However, when Paul says "One God and Father of all who is over all and through all and in all" do I need to mentally insert (More than one God) in order to accomodate for the existence of Satan ?
Was Paul naive there to fail to imply that the Christian church really has to accomodate for more than one God and include Satan as one of these Gods ?
03 Sep 09
(( Question here: When the Bible speaks of "One Lord" (Ephesians 4:5) should I regard that as a mistake on the Apostle Paul's part? Should I make a mental change and insert "(More than one) Lord, one faith, one baptism, one God and Father of all ..."? . ))
What is this saying Jay? Is it not simply saying that this oneness is in all God's true followers? To be one in the same faith, spirit, baptism, hope, goal? Jehovah & Jesus are one in this same context
((Of course there is more than one Jesus in the New Testament.
However, when Paul says "One God and Father of all who is over all and through all and in all" do I need to mentally insert (More than one God) in order to accomodate for the existence of Satan ? ))
Is not Satan called a God in the Bible? Of course he is a God. A God of this wicked system that we all live in on this planet.
(( Was Paul naive there to fail to imply that the Christian church really has to accomodate for more than one God and include Satan as one of these Gods ?))
No he was not naive in this. He knows there are other Gods, but he know's there is only one God Almighty.
03 Sep 09
Originally posted by galveston75yes my friend, but now you are burdened with reading long rambling texts that make no sense, are unsubstantiated, have been addressed a thousand zillion times elsewhere, in the face of incontrovertible biblical evidence to the contrary. you would be as well as reasoning with wall!
You don't have to reject any of it. Jesus is also refered to as a Lord as is Jehovah. They can both be a Lord just as the Bible says they are both a God. Satan is a God but by no means is he the almighty God as is not Jesus. Lord is just a title that even humans use.
03 Sep 09
Originally posted by galveston75Passages that say there is only one God:
(( Question here: When the Bible speaks of "One Lord" (Ephesians 4:5) should I regard that as a mistake on the Apostle Paul's part? Should I make a mental change and insert "(More than one) Lord, one faith, one baptism, one God and Father of all ..."? . ))
What is this saying Jay? Is it not simply saying that this oneness is in all God's true follower ...[text shortened]... e in this. He knows there are other Gods, but he know's there is only one God Almighty.
1. "For this reason a man shall leave his father and his mother, and be joined to his wife; and they shall become one [echad] flesh. " Genesis 2:24
2. "there is no one like Yahweh our God." Exodus 8:10
3. "Yahweh, He is God; there is no other besides Him." Deuteronomy 4:35
4. "Yahweh, He is God in heaven above and on the earth below; there is no other." Deuteronomy 4:39
5. "See now that I, I am He, And there is no god besides Me" Deuteronomy 32:39
6. "Hear, O Israel! Yahweh is our God, Yahweh is one [echad]!" Deuteronomy 6:4
7. "You are great, O Lord God; for there is none like You, and there is no God besides You" 2 Samuel 7:22
8. "For who is God, besides Yahweh? And who is a rock, besides our God?" 2 Samuel 22:32
9. "Yahweh is God; there is no one else." 1 Kings 8:60
10. "You are the God, You alone [bad], of all the kingdoms of the earth." 2 Kings 19:15
11. "O Lord, there is none like You, nor is there any God besides You" 1 Chronicles 17:20
12. "You alone [bad] are Yahweh." Nehemiah 9:6
13. "For who is God, but Yahweh? And who is a rock, except our God" Psalm 18:31
14. "You alone [bad], Lord, are God." Isaiah 37:20
15. "Before Me there was no God formed, And there will be none after Me." Isaiah 43:10
16. "‘I am the first and I am the last, And there is no God besides Me." Isaiah 44:6
17. "Is there any God besides Me, Or is there any other Rock? I know of none." Isaiah 44:8
18. "I am Yahweh, and there is no other; Besides Me there is no God." Isaiah 45:5
19. "Surely, God is with you, and there is none else, No other God." Isaiah 45:14
20. "I am Yahweh, and there is none else." Isaiah 45:18
21. "Is it not I, Yahweh? And there is no other God besides Me, A righteous God and a Savior; There is none except Me." Isaiah 45:21
22. "I am God, and there is no other; I am God, and there is no one like Me" Isaiah 46:9
23. "And Yahweh will be king over all the earth; in that day Yahweh will be the only one [echad], and His name the only one[echad]." Zechariah 14:9
24. "No one can serve two masters; for either he will hate the one [hen] and love the other, or he will be devoted to one [hen] and despise the other. You cannot serve God and wealth." Matthew 6:24
25. "For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one
26. [hen] flesh"? " Matthew 19:5 "But do not be called Rabbi; for One [hen] is your Teacher, and you are all brothers." Matthew 23:8
27. "Do not be called leaders; for One [hen] is your Leader, that is, Christ." Matthew 23:10
28. ""The foremost is, ‘Hear, O Israel! The Lord our God is one [hen] Lord; " Mark 12:29
29. "you do not seek the glory that is from the one and only [monos] God?" John 5:44
30. "I and the Father are one
31. [hen]." John 10:30 "This is eternal life, that they may know You, the only [monos] true God" John 17:3
32. "The glory which You have given Me I have given to them, that they may be one [hen], just as We are one [hen]" John 17:22
33. "since indeed God is one [hen]" Romans 3:30
34. "to the only [monos] wise God, Amen." Romans 16:27
35. "there is no God but one [hen]" 1 Corinthians 8:4
36. "yet for us there is but one [hen] God, the Father, from whom are all things and we exist for Him; and one [hen] Lord, Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we exist through Him." 1 Corinthians 8:6
37. "Now a mediator is not for one party only; whereas God is only one [hen]." Galatians 3:20
38. "There is one [hen] body and one [hen] Spirit, one [hen] hope, one [hen] Lord, one [hen] faith, one [hen] baptism, one [hen] God and Father of all who is over all and through all and in all." Ephesians 4:4-6
39. "Now to the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only [monos] God" 1 Timothy 1:17
40. "which He will bring about at the proper time—He who is the blessed and only [monos] Sovereign, the King of kings and Lord of lords, who alone [monos] possesses immortality and dwells in unapproachable light, whom no man has seen or can see. To Him be honor and eternal dominion! Amen." 1 Timothy 6:16
41. "For there is one [hen] God, and one mediator also between God and men, the man Christ Jesus," 1 Timothy 2:5
42. "You believe that God is one [hen]. You do well; the demons also believe, and shudder." James 2:19
43. "For certain persons deny our only [monos] Master and Lord, Jesus Christ." Jude 4
44. "the only [monos] God our Savior, through Jesus Christ our Lord. Amen." Jude 25
I love number 5....really love that one. How does God's word compare with your current theological perspective
03 Sep 09
3 edits
Originally posted by duecerGod
Passages that say there is only one God:
1. "For this reason a man shall leave his father and his mother, and be joined to his wife; and they shall become one [echad] flesh. " Genesis 2:24
2. "there is no one like Yahweh our God." Exodus 8:10
3. "Yahweh, He is God; there is no other besides Him." Deuteronomy 4:35
4. "Yahweh, He is God in hea ctive
Anything that is worshipped can be termed a god, inasmuch as the worshipper attributes to it might greater than his own and venerates it. A person can even let his belly be a god. (Ro 16:18; Php 3:18, 19) The Bible makes mention of many gods (Ps 86:8; 1Co 8:5, 6), but it shows that the gods of the nations are valueless gods.—Ps 96:5;
Hebrew Terms.
Among the Hebrew words that are translated “God” is El, probably meaning “Mighty One; Strong One.” (Ge 14:18) It is used with reference to Jehovah, to other gods, and to men. It is also used extensively in the makeup of proper names, such as Elisha (meaning “God Is Salvation&rdquo😉 and Michael (“Who Is Like God?&rdquo😉. In some places El appears with the definite article (ha El, literally, “the God&rdquo😉 with reference to Jehovah, thereby distinguishing him from other gods.—Ge 46:3; 2Sa 22:31;
At Isaiah 9:6 Jesus Christ is prophetically called El Gibbohr, “Mighty God” (not El Shaddai [God Almighty], which is applied to Jehovah at Genesis 17:1).
The plural form, elim, is used when referring to other gods, such as at Exodus 15:11 (“gods&rdquo😉. It is also used as the plural of majesty and excellence, as in Psalm 89:6: “Who can resemble Jehovah among the sons of God [bibeneh Elim]?” That the plural form is used to denote a single individual here and in a number of other places is supported by the translation of Elim by the singular form Theos in the Greek Septuagint; likewise by Deus in the Latin Vulgate.
The Hebrew word elohim (gods) appears to be from a root meaning “be strong.” Elohim is the plural of elohah (god). Sometimes this plural refers to a number of gods (Ge 31:30, 32; 35:2), but more often it is used as a plural of majesty, dignity, or excellence. Elohim is used in the Scriptures with reference to Jehovah himself, to angels, to idol gods (singular and plural), and to men.
When applying to Jehovah, Elohim is used as a plural of majesty, dignity, or excellence. (Ge 1:1) Regarding this, Aaron Ember wrote: “That the language of the Old Testament has entirely given up the idea of plurality in . . . Elohim (as applied to the God of Israel) is especially shown by the fact that it is almost invariably construed with a singular verbal predicate, and takes a singular adjectival attribute. . . . Elohim must rather be explained as an intensive plural, denoting greatness and majesty, being equal to The Great God.”—The American Journal of Semitic Languages and Literatures, Vol. XXI, 1905, p. 208.
The title Elohim draws attention to Jehovahs strength as the Creator. It appears 35 times by itself in the account of creation, and every time the verb describing what he said and did is in the singular number. (Ge 1:1–2:4) In him resides the sum and substance of infinite forces.
At Psalm 8:5, the angels are also referred to as elohim, as is confirmed by Paul’s quotation of the passage at Hebrews 2:6-8. They are called beneh haElohim, “sons of God” (KJ); “sons of the true God” (NW), at Genesis 6:2, 4; Job 1:6; 2:1. Lexicon in Veteris Testamenti Libros, by Koehler and Baumgartner (1958), page 134, says: “(individual) divine beings, gods.” And page 51 says: “the (single) gods,” and it cites Genesis 6:2; Job 1:6; 2:1; 38:7. Hence, at Psalm 8:5 elohim is rendered “angels” (LXX); “godlike ones” (NW).
The word elohim is also used when referring to idol gods. Sometimes this plural form means simply “gods.” (Ex 12:12; 20:23) At other times it is the plural of excellence and only one god (or goddess) is referred to. However, these gods were clearly not trinities.—1Sa 5:7b (Dagon); 1Ki 11:5 (“goddess” Ashtoreth); Da 1:2b (Marduk).
At Psalm 82:1, 6, elohim is used of men, human judges in Israel. Jesus quoted from this Psalm at John 10:34, 35. They were gods in their capacity as representatives of and spokesmen for Jehovah. Similarly Moses was told that he was to serve as “God” to Aaron and to Pharaoh.—Ex 4:16,
In many places in the Scriptures Elohim is also found preceded by the definite article ha. (Ge 5:22) Concerning the use of ha Elohim, F. Zorell says: “In the Holy Scriptures especially the one true God, Jahve, is designated by this word; . . . Jahve is the one true God, De 4:35; 4:39; Jos 22:34; 2Sa 7:28; 1Ki 8:60 etc.”—Lexicon Hebraicum Veteris Testamenti, Rome, 1984, p. 54;
would you like to know the Greek term and its connotations?
03 Sep 09
1 edit
Originally posted by robbie carrobiepretty dance you did there but you didn't say anything. let me specifically point out what the almighty said: "See now that I, I am He, And there is no god besides Me" Deuteronomy 32:39
God
Anything that is worshipped can be termed a god, inasmuch as the worshipper attributes to it might greater than his own and venerates it. A person can even let his belly be a god. (Ro 16:18; Php 3:18, 19) The Bible makes mention of many gods (Ps 86:8; 1Co 8:5, 6), but it shows that the gods of the nations are valueless gods.—Ps 96:5;
Hebre ...[text shortened]... is Testamenti, Rome, 1984, p. 54;
would you like to know the Greek term and its connotations?
God said,"There is no God besides me" are you calling him a liar Robbie?
03 Sep 09
Originally posted by duecerread the text Deucer and then we can talk! perhaps there is an inaccuracy that you wish to point out, but i doubt it, you are simply unaware of the biblical expressions. take the opportunity to educate yourself, its free for the public!
pretty dance you did there but you didn't say anything let me specifically point out what the almighty said: "See now that I, I am He, And there is no god besides Me" Deuteronomy 32:39
God said,"There is no God besides me" are you calling him a liar Robbie?
03 Sep 09
1 edit
Originally posted by robbie carrobieanswer my question and address the scripture I quoted or be branded a faithless fraud. Is God a liar?
read the text Deucer and then we can talk! perhaps there is an inaccuracy that you wish to point out, but i doubt it, you are simply unaware of the biblical expressions. take the opportunity to educate yourself, its free for the public!
edit; I kinda like this one as well. god's word rebuts your entire obfuscation. i need not give a long answer
"O Lord, there is none like You, nor is there any God besides You" 1 Chronicles 17:20
03 Sep 09
Originally posted by robbie carrobieI can tell by his answers that he's not reading them.... but "if" he is he's certianly not getting what your saying or the meaning.
read the text Deucer and then we can talk! perhaps there is an inaccuracy that you wish to point out, but i doubt it, you are simply unaware of the biblical expressions. take the opportunity to educate yourself, its free for the public!
03 Sep 09
Originally posted by duecerSo your saying that Jesus and the Holy Spirit is like him even though this scripture says differently?
answer my question and address the scripture I quoted or be branded a faithless fraud. Is God a liar?
edit; I kinda like this one as well. god's word rebuts your entire obfuscation. i need not give a long answer
"O Lord, there is none like You, nor is there any God besides You" 1 Chronicles 17:20