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13 Jul 15
Originally posted by twhiteheadMy nan loved her God. Every Sunday she would wobble (*long story) off to Church, say grace before our meals and tell me stories about Jesus and the bible. Her body was riddled with athritis for as long as i knew her and from what i've heard (but never from her) she had a pretty dreadful life of hardship and suffering. As a child i would believe her religious stories, as a man i would humour her with them. Her faith gave her strength. Despite my atheistic leanings, i would never have begrudged her that. I was pleased that she genuinely believed in heaven, that she was going to a better place without suffering and pain.
I do, especially in certain cases:
1. If they wish to force their beliefs on others via the legal system or school system.
2. If they engage in hate speech or otherwise wish harm on others.
I generally do want to see the end of religion as I believe it is generally harmful, but I would like to see it end via education rather than by force.
My nan of course never engaged in hate speeches or attempted to force her beliefs on others, but then most of the people i encounter in these forums don't do that either. In the right hands religion can be a beautiful thing.
Originally posted by Ghost of a DukeI don't completely discount the good sides of religion, or more importantly the good sides of religious people. However, I think it is all to common to confuse the two, and also to assume that religion is the only way to achieve the same thing. I think religion too often takes credit for things it is not responsible for, and to often manages to avoid responsibility for thing it is responsible for.
In the right hands religion can be a beautiful thing.
I attended a school run by an Irish group known as the 'Christian Brothers'. They were very nice people and dedicated to teaching - and did an excellent job. At the same time, there are parts of the world where people are denied education (especially girls) in the name of religion.
You will find that in the first instance the religion will get most of the credit and in the second it will all get blamed on the local culture or the selfishness of the men.
Originally posted by twhiteheadI don't know what else to say, except to point out how many of your messages can come across as parodies of what it is you actually support and believe. Your method of argumentation is somewhat odd, and if I wanted to do a parody of the atheist mindset it might look very much the same. But for the atheist it defeats his own purpose, and I know for a fact this is not what you've been trying to accomplish... I'm sure there must be a word for this, but at the moment I can't think of what it might be.
We obviously grew up in different countries.
[b]If you believe your personal experiences growing up somehow has the power to cancel out and invalidate mine, you are sadly mistaken.
I never claimed any such thing.
You tossed in YEC as though it had something to do with what I was saying.
It has everything to do with the supposed connect ...[text shortened]... g I might believe is what it is.[/b]
Again, I did not say any such thing. Please learn to read.[/b]
However, you have managed to convince me it would be fruitless to try explaining this or convince you I'm not just blowing smoke... so I'll leave you to reestablish your self image and continue on as per usual.
Oh, and don't forget to claim victory for yourself and do your little victory dance...
Pffft yeah, right... as though, you know... like you might actually forget to do that. 😛
Originally posted by lemon limeAs usual it is more a case of you imagining that I have said things I have not said because you don't read very carefully.
I don't know what else to say, except to point out how many of your messages can come across as parodies of what it is you actually support and believe.
19 Jul 15
The post that was quoted here has been removed
For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who suppress the truth in unrighteousness, because what may be known of God is manifest in them, for God has shown it to them. For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse, because, although they knew God, they did not glorify Him as God, nor were thankful, but became futile in their thoughts, and their foolish hearts were darkened. Professing to be wise, they became fools, and changed the glory of the incorruptible God into an image made like corruptible man—and birds and four-footed animals and creeping things.
Therefore God also gave them up to uncleanness, in the lusts of their hearts, to dishonor their bodies among themselves, who exchanged the truth of God for the lie, and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen.
For this reason God gave them up to vile passions. For even their women exchanged the natural use for what is against nature. Likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust for one another, men with men committing what is shameful, and receiving in themselves the penalty of their error which was due.
And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a debased mind, to do those things which are not fitting; being filled with all unrighteousness, sexual immorality, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, evil-mindedness; they are whisperers, backbiters, haters of God, violent, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, undiscerning, untrustworthy, unloving, unforgiving, unmerciful; who, knowing the righteous judgment of God, that those who practice such things are deserving of death, not only do the same but also approve of those who practice them.
(Romans 1:18-32 NKJV)
"But for the cowardly and unbelieving and abominable and murderers and immoral persons and sorcerers and idolaters and all liars, their part will be in the lake that burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death."
(Revelation 21:8 NASB)
😏