Two Views of Human Government

Originally posted by divegeester
I stand by that statement. Actually it's quite polite.

Yes you do write mumbo-jumbo at times. Much of what you believe I think is error and some is even cultish doctrine. All your stuff about people on other worlds witnessing the lost being hung in chains etc. It's nonsense. Your overweening and creepy "love" of the trinity doctrine, not just error, i ...[text shortened]... m is consider "clamor". And now you've been caught posting other people's ministry as your own.

On the Trinity I think you have been refuted amply so that I need not add more.

I stand by that statement. Actually it's quite polite.

You may be polite but dishonest. Below if you say I insisted that there will be creatures on other planets you are dishonest about what I said.

You keep trying to revive this as if I had a definite teaching about beings on other planets. I have never been so definite or insistent about that.

Yes you do write mumbo-jumbo at times. Much of what you believe I think is error and some is even cultish doctrine. All your stuff about people on other worlds witnessing the lost being hung in chains etc. It's nonsense.

This displays your dishonesty. My mentioning of other creatures in the future was strictly a hypothetical. it was not a definite teaching. You're dishonest to portray it as a definite teaching I put forth.

God says He makes all things NEW in the new heaven and new earth after the millennium.

" And I saw a new heaven and a new earth; for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away ... "(Rev. 21:1) " ... And He who sits on the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And He said, Write, for these words are faithful and true." (v.5)

Question: Is there a possibility that this creating all things new MIGHT involve new lives of new creatures in that universe?

Do you know definitely that it could not? I think not.
Do I know definitely that it must? No, I do not.

Did God put some rebellious angels in "chains" or "bonds" ?

" And angels who did not keep their own principality but abandoned their own dwelling place, He has kept in eternal bonds under gloom for the judgment of the great day." (Jude 6)

For me to say God placed some rebellious creations of His in chains or bonds is not a cultish belief at all. It comes straight from Jude 6.

Generally speaking then some rebellious creatures of God were confined and punished.
Am I right?
I think if you disagree then you disagree with the Bible and not with my wild cultish imagination.

Now some human beings will suffer the fate "prepared for the devil and his angels"
So if confinement and punishment was prepared for the Devil and his angels is it not the case that sinners partake of confinement and punishment in a same manner?

" Then He will say also to those on the left, Go away from Me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels." (Matt. 25:41)

Is it not the case that what was prepared for the devil and his angels will also be co-experienced by some lost human sinners ?

If you take the word for what it says then there is the ground to say that confinement and punishment for evil angels will also be co-suffered by sinners in like fashion. Otherwise how could they go to experience what was "prepared for the devil and his angels" ? .

What about display, witnessing, beholding of other men or (hypothetical) future creations ?
Is it so outlandish ?

Daniel prophesies that in a final resurrection at the end of an earth epoch some will rise to everlasting contempt.

" And many of those who are sleeping in the dust of the ground will awake, some to life eternal and some to reproach, to eternal contempt." (Dan. 12:2)

If some are resurrected only to reproach and eternal contempt, that implies that their fate is SEEN by others. Does it not?

is there any ground for you to say ONLY God will see, reproach and have contempt for these ones so punished? I see no specific ground to believe that. Rather the strong implication is that those SAVED hold them in reproach and eternal contempt.

Then some are witnesses and some are a spectacle.
Then some are beholders and some are sufferers.
Then some confined and punished are borne witness to by some free and saved.

And IF some hypothetical new creations exist (not insisting on this) they too may witness those raised -

" ... to reproach, to eternal contempt" (See Dan. 12:2)

The "mumbo-jumbo" is probably with you teaching that "eternal" does not mean "eternal".

The "mumbo-jumbo" is probably with you saying what was prepared for the devil and his angels is not the fate of some human sinners per Matthew 25:41,46. There is no outlandish teaching of me saying confinement (of some type) and punishment will be witnessed by those in God's eternal kingdom.

" For as the new heavens and new earth, which I make, Remain before Me, declares Jehovah, so will your seed and your name remain.

And from new moon to new moon and from Sabbath to Sabbath all flesh will come to bow down before Me, says Jehovah,

THEN ... they will go forth and look on the carcasses of the men that have transgressed against Me; For their worm will not die, Nor will their fire be quenched;

And they will be an abhorrence to all flesh." (Isaiah 66:22-24)

Originally posted by sonship
You keep trying to revive this as if I had a definite teaching about beings on other planets. I have never been so definite or insistent about that. [...]

This displays your dishonesty. My mentioning of other creatures in the future was strictly a hypothetical. it was not a definite teaching. You're dishonest to portray it as a definite teaching I put forth.

So let's get this straight. You write screeds and screeds of elaborate stuff about things like burning non-believers being hung out on chains by Jesus as a warning to creatures from other worlds but you reserve the right to retrospectively declare some bits of it to have been "not a definite teaching" when you feel it's necessary? So when we see walls of text, we need to remember that you might later refer to parts of it as "definite" and other parts as "not definite" as and when it suits you?