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06 Apr 17
Originally posted by FMF
What "transgressions"? Who is "them"? What does any of this have to do with your god figure?
What "transgressions"?
Yours.
Who is "them"? What does any of this have to do with your god figure?
Them is the people you have committed offenses against.
My so called God figure is (your Judge and Savior who you wish to deny) saw, recorded, will bring to remembrance. And best of all can forgive.
Concerning this being God to you, it is not guess work, it is not superstition, it is not wishful thinking.
If I were an atheist, it would not make God not exist.
If I am a Christian, it does not create God.
I can neither cause God to not exist or create God.
I can believe or not believe.
I believe. But if I didn't it would only be a matter of time before I have a rendezvous with reality. Same for you. What is a few years of denial for the atheist? Its just a little bit of a slice of temporary time, nothing more.
One thousand years are just like one day to God.
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One of the reasons that the book of Daniel has been so vehemently attacked by the skeptical "Higher Criticism" is because people cannot believe that Daniel was able to see history before the fact.
Besides Genesis the book of Daniel is quite strongly argued against as not possibly have been written when it purports to have been authored, at the time of the Babylonian Captivity.
There is a good book which title has been used more than once. But the volume that I have been helped by is by one Sir Robert Anderson - "Daniel in the Critics' Den" (first appearing in 1909).
I think after many years the title was also used by another author, which I have not read.
Anderson's critique of historical arguments against Daniel I have read a ways back.
I believe this prophetic book accurately foresaw major events of as of then unaccomplished history. It testifies that God is transcendent over time and knows the events on earth before they occur.
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Originally posted by FMFWhy do you think that your questions about this should be interesting for me to argue with you about ?
What have I said to you or anyone here that needs ~ in your view ~ the "forgiveness" of your god... aside from my openly expressed lack of belief in your god?
Neither "winning" the argument about these questions or "losing" the argument about these questions have an effect on the matter.
There is the unconvinced man and the convinced man, concerning God.
The unconvinced man doesn't make God not real or just someone's "figure."
The convinced man doesn't create God as his "figure".
Originally posted by sonshipYou've talked about my "offences" and my "transgressions" against people here and against you, and you have claimed that I need the "forgiveness" from your god figure for them. If you don't wish all this stuff you've asserted to be scrutinized or responded to, then I guess now is the time for you to say that you don't find the scrutiny and responses "interesting" and cop out. But it seems to me to be a bit tawdry of you to brandish your god on the forum in this rather petty way.
Why do you think that your questions about this should be interesting for me to argue with you about ?
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Originally posted by FMFEven if you did not need forgiveness from God you would still need God to be completed as to the meaning of life.
What have I said to you or anyone here that needs ~ in your view ~ the "forgiveness" of your god... aside from my openly expressed lack of belief in your god?
Adam, before he sinned, still needed God as the real meaning of his life.
It was not only that he needed God for forgiveness.
You did not create yourself. So needing forgiveness or not needing forgiveness, man needs to relate to God for the ultimate origin and meaning of his life.
06 Apr 17
Originally posted by sonshipSo you are no longer suggesting that I have committed "transgressions" in my interactions with you that require "forgiveness" from your god? Are you dropping that?
Even if you did not need forgiveness from God you would still need God to be completed as to the meaning of life.
Adam, before he sinned, still needed God as the real meaning of his life.
It was not only that he needed God for forgiveness.
You did not create yourself. So needing forgiveness or not needing forgiveness, man needs to relate to God for the ultimate origin and meaning of his life.
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Originally posted by FMF[b]You've talked about my "offences" and my "transgressions" against people here and against you,
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"Here" there should mean in the world - people I don't even know.
and you have claimed that I need the "forgiveness" from your god figure for them.
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You need forgiveness from God.
And if you did not need forgiveness you would still need a relationship with God.
Me too.
If you don't wish all this stuff you've asserted to be scrutinized or responded to,
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Quote me where I said "Don't question and don't scrutinize."
You can ask 745 scrutinizing questions. Number them if you wish.
I decide where and to whom I want to spend my time answering questions. And how many I want to address.
What's wrong with "coping out" of a game of perpetual whack-a-mole and brandishing the truth anyway to those with better questions?
Even Jesus went away from some persistent questioners and kept on "brandishing" His teaching anyway.
" But when they persisted to question Him, He stood up and said ... and again He stooped down and wrote on the ground." (See John 8:7,8)
He kept on doing His thing even though some persisted to grill Him.
Sorry. I'll "cope out" and continuing "brandishing" by writing on my keyboard on this Forum too.
You see, FMF, I don't have to be the perfect Christian apologist.
You got really, really tough questions you think?
Well, the triumphant Gospel truth marches on after 20 centuries of good questions.
You can scrutinize all you want. I told you that already.
Ask me another 135 scrutinizing questions if you can.
And 135 times I'll say people are better off to believe the Bible than your arguments.
You have nothing compared to my God figure, who happens to be your Creator too.
And He is the Jesus Christ of history.
This little case of whack-a-mole started with you saying Divegeester on his claim of plagiarizing, was just merely asking a question.
Its quite good to "brandish" a good understanding of Scripture.
then I guess now is the time for you to say that you don't find the scrutiny and responses "interesting" and cop out. But it seems to me to be a bit tawdry of you to brandish your god on the forum in this rather petty way.
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If that is what you guess then that is what you guess, I guess.
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Originally posted by FMFNope, for people who are reading along, i make the point that God is not just there for forgiveness.
So you are no longer suggesting that I have committed "transgressions" in my interactions with you that require "forgiveness" from your god? Are you dropping that?
Didn't drop anyone's need for redemption.
I only helped public readers briefly to see that before the problem of sin came in, God was still a God of purpose.
And I reserve the right to address you but say something for the benefit of others, knowing that you won't get it probably.
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Originally posted by FMF
So you are no longer suggesting that I have committed "transgressions" in my interactions with you that require "forgiveness" from your god? Are you dropping that?
So you are no longer suggesting ...
Watch me do the same thing.
So then FMF, your interest in the word of God is increasing all the more as I write?
See FMF, you're not the only one who can make up loaded questions.
So then, you're so unconvinced of the non-existence of God that you have to load more questions to convince yourself that God is only my "god figure?"
So then, you're so happy with imagining that you have never committed any offenses with anyone?
So then, secret transgressions which people know nothing about, do not require forgiveness from anyone?
See? I can also formulate questions to push my points like you do.
06 Apr 17
Originally posted by sonshipI am happy to imagine that there is no "transgression" I have made against you or anyone here that needs the "forgiveness" of your god figure. Otherwise it would seem to make the notions that define your god figure seem awfully small minded and glass-chinned.
So then, you're so happy with imagining that you have never committed any offenses with anyone?
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Originally posted by FMFI am happy to imagine that there is no "transgression"
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So, you're saying that since you know it is true that others have received your transgressions, instead of acknowledging it you are happy to "imagine" it only ?
So it is more comfortable to you that such a fact only be imaginary ?
I have made against you or anyone here that needs the "forgiveness" of your god figure.
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So you want to imagine that my "god figure" only serves to vindicate me personally like some older brother against a bully? So you would like to reduce God to a "figure" of some personal buddy of mine so as to trivialize God ?
So you would like to propose your "innocent FMF figure" to whom offenses have been committed against, but who is entirely free from owing anyone else anything ? It is only imaginary ?
Otherwise it would seem to make the notions that define your god figure seem awfully small minded and glass-chinned.
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So, then imagining unreal offenses, imagining your "innocent FMF figure" and making a caricature of fidgety and petty "god figure" (of my personal invention) of the Bible provides support for atheism ?
So, you believe you created the universe and yourself, are innocent of transgressing anyone, and all who disbelieve your megalomania are superstitious ?
So as an innocent figure you hope to prove your narcissistic megalomania is much more impressive than the life, words and deeds of Jesus ?
