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@pettytalk saidNot meaning to be at all confrontational here.
I don't intend to interfere between you two, but I believe you do not understand what is meant by 'the Living Word'. This refers to the Biblical text, the 'Word' of God as written down. When Jesus became flesh and blood and had a mouth to speak, he embodied the Living Word.
As stated in John 12:49, 'For I have not spoken on My own authority; but the Father who sent Me, He gave Me a commandment, what I should say and what I should speak.'
How do you know that “The Bible” is the complete, exclusive and inerrant “word of God”?
336d
@pettytalk saidTherefore the doctrine that Jesus and God are one and the same entity, or are equal, is not biblical. Jesus is the Son of God and God is the Father. There is a clear pecking order. There is God above all things, Jesus the Son under God and next comes man. Paul confirms this:
I don't intend to interfere between you two, but I believe you do not understand what is meant by 'the Living Word'. This refers to the Biblical text, the 'Word' of God as written down. When Jesus became flesh and blood and had a mouth to speak, he embodied the Living Word.
As stated in John 12:49, 'For I have not spoken on My own authority; but the Father who sent Me, He gave Me a commandment, what I should say and what I should speak.'
But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God. (1 Corinthians 11:3 KJV)
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@ghost-of-a-duke saidI'm not at all surprised that those who deny God cannot see the kingdom of God, nor see God at all since the only god they have is the one they made up in their heads, so everything they see makes all seem to fit the delusion they have created to avoid reality.
I am perpetually surprised how Christians can choose to ignore the obvious in scripture. It is as if you have read an entirely different passage,
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@ghost-of-a-duke saidI don't believe it's a Kelly thing, it's a thing in the whole of Christianity, in general. Fraud through embezzlement of the minds? Or simply, bamboozlement.
Bump for Kelly.
More intertextuality.
'For as the physician considers that the body will receive no benefit from taking food until the internal obstacles have been removed, so the purifier of the soul is conscious that his patient will receive no benefit from the application of knowledge until he is refuted, and from refutation learns modesty; he must be purged of his prejudices first and made to think that he knows only what he knows, and no more.'
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@pettytalk saidGod is one, God is a socially complex being Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, but it is even more than that. God is immutable always, is, and will be, Jesus Christ the same yesterday, today, and forever. He does not lower one of His attributes to acquire satisfaction in another, meaning He will not set aside His goodness to give forgiveness.
I don't intend to interfere between you two, but I believe you do not understand what is meant by 'the Living Word'. This refers to the Biblical text, the 'Word' of God as written down. When Jesus became flesh and blood and had a mouth to speak, he embodied the Living Word.
As stated in John 12:49, 'For I have not spoken on My own authority; but the Father who sent Me, He gave Me a commandment, what I should say and what I should speak.'
If sin or evil is done due to God's holy nature He requires satisfaction due to His righteousness, goodness, and holiness. So when we get saved it is saved from God Himself no other, He can only be satisfied in terms that are completely righteous and good as God views them. God became a man Jesus Christ so we can relate to Him, and His blood was given for us bought us, and redeems us, He is our redemption, satisfying even God's righteous standard.
God the Father did not create Jesus Christ just to kill him to save us that would not be any cost to God, it would be playing with toys for God. The Word of God, God the Son, God Himself took our sins upon Himself paying the price in full. This is why its important to get right!
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@KellyJay
Would it be fair to say Kelly you are flummoxed by the below and are trying to pretend you haven't seen it?
'In the Gospel of John you do indeed have Jesus saying things like, "Before Abraham was, I am." And, "I and the Father are one," and, "If you've seen me, you've seen the Father." - Why though don't we see this in the other gospels or in the writings of Paul? Why don't they record Jesus saying such things?
Surely Matthew, Mark and Luke would mention Jesus called himself God if that was indeed what he was declaring about himself. No? '
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@ghost-of-a-duke saidI have no trouble at all saying the Son is different than the Father, Three persons, One God. We see these types of things in the OT and the NT, let us make man in our image, who will go for us, while God is speaking.
@KellyJay
Would it be fair to say Kelly you are flummoxed by the below and are trying to pretend you haven't seen it?
'In the Gospel of John you do indeed have Jesus saying things like, "Before Abraham was, I am." And, "I and the Father are one," and, "If you've seen me, you've seen the Father." - Why though don't we see this in the other gospels or in the wri ...[text shortened]... would mention Jesus called himself God if that was indeed what he was declaring about himself. No? '
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@divegeester saidPettyTalk?
Not meaning to be at all confrontational here.
How do you know that “The Bible” is the complete, exclusive and inerrant “word of God”?
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@kellyjay saidI specifically asked you about John.
I did.
'In the Gospel of John you do indeed have Jesus saying things like, "Before Abraham was, I am." And, "I and the Father are one," and, "If you've seen me, you've seen the Father." - Why though don't we see this in the other gospels or in the writings of Paul? Why don't they record Jesus saying such things?
Surely Matthew, Mark and Luke would mention Jesus called himself God if that was indeed what he was declaring about himself. No? '
336d
@ghost-of-a-duke saidAs I pointed out there is a lot that points to Jesus being God, throughout all of the Bible.
I specifically asked you about John.
'In the Gospel of John you do indeed have Jesus saying things like, "Before Abraham was, I am." And, "I and the Father are one," and, "If you've seen me, you've seen the Father." - Why though don't we see this in the other gospels or in the writings of Paul? Why don't they record Jesus saying such things?
Surely Matthew, Mark ...[text shortened]... would mention Jesus called himself God if that was indeed what he was declaring about himself. No? '
Matthew:
Before Jesus' birth:
Now the birth of Jesus Christ took place in this way. When his mother Mary had been betrothed to Joseph, before they came together she was found to be with child from the Holy Spirit. And her husband Joseph, being a just man and unwilling to put her to shame, resolved to divorce her quietly. But as he considered these things, behold, an angel of the Lord appeared to him in a dream, saying, “Joseph, son of David, do not fear to take Mary as your wife, for that which is conceived in her is from the Holy Spirit. She will bear a son, and you shall call his name Jesus, for he will save his people from their sins.” All this took place to fulfill what the Lord had spoken by the prophet:
“Behold, the virgin shall conceive and bear a son,
and they shall call his name Immanuel”
(which means, God with us).
Jesus says it is He who will be judging on the day of judgment.
“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’ And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.’
Jesus took on the title Son of man, which comes from the book of Danial and points to divinity, not so the title sons of God.
And Jesus said to him, “Foxes have holes, and birds of the air have nests, but the Son of Man has nowhere to lay his head.”
---
Now when Jesus came into the district of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, “Who do people say that the Son of Man is?” And they said, “Some say John the Baptist, others say Elijah, and others Jeremiah or one of the prophets.” He said to them, “But who do you say that I am?” Simon Peter replied, “You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.” And Jesus answered him, “Blessed are you, Simon Bar-Jonah! For flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but my Father who is in heaven.
Jesus forgave sins
“Take heart, my son; your sins are forgiven.”
When Jesus rose from the dead He made a promise to all of those who followed Him about being with them.
Now the eleven disciples went to Galilee, to the mountain to which Jesus had directed them. And when they saw him they worshiped him, but some doubted. And Jesus came and said to them, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you. And behold, I am with you always, to the end of the age.”
You want other examples?
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I had imagined there would be more participants and more serious direct adherence to the intent of this thread.
1. Eternal life vs. Salvation. Is eternal life equivalent to Salvation?
They must be different, based on Jesus speaking of eternal damnation or hell for souls.
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@kellyjay said"You want other examples?"
As I pointed out there is a lot that points to Jesus being God, throughout all of the Bible.
Matthew:
Before Jesus' birth:
Now the birth of Jesus Christ took place in this way. When his mother Mary had been betrothed to Joseph, before they came together she was found to be with child from the Holy Spirit. And her husband Joseph, being a just man and unwilling to put h ...[text shortened]... commanded you. And behold, I am with you always, to the end of the age.”
You want other examples?
Examples? Would you possibly be an example of one of those that keeps calling out to the Lord? One of these: Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.
John 17:4 - "I glorified you on earth, having accomplished the work you gave me to do."
John 17:1-5 - "After Jesus said this, he looked toward heaven and prayed: 'Father, the time has come. Glorify your Son, that your Son may glorify you. For you granted him authority over all people that he might give eternal life to all those you have given him. Now this is eternal life: that they know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent.'"
I understand that it's challenging for anyone to perceive the truth when they've been so thoroughly captivated that they've sealed themselves in almost complete darkness. What has occurred is that Christians have been taught to glorify the Son instead of the Father, who is the one and only true God. All of us, including Jesus, are considered children of God. We are all gods, children of the Most High.
1. Eternal life vs. Salvation. Is eternal life equivalent to Salvation?
Now this is eternal life: that they know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent.
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@pettytalk saidOne might lead to the other, but they are 2 separate things.
"You want other examples?"
Examples? Would you possibly be an example of one of those that keeps calling out to the Lord? One of these: Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.
John 17:4 - "I glorified you on earth, having accomplished the work you gave me to do."
John ...[text shortened]... w this is eternal life: that they know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent.