Victims of Pentacostal Cultists

Originally posted by FMF
The owner, a Javanese woman, is very actively trying to recruit other Christians - both Protestants and Catholics - to her local church. I was chatting to one of them last night. He wasn't so aware of all the details of what's going on in the cafe. Without prompting, he talked about how her two 'minders' from a different city, gave him the creeps. They are indee ...[text shortened]... ctics having declined to join the cringeworthy public "speaking in tongues" sessions.

Sounds like there is a case for legal action? I'm not familiar with the employment laws in Indonesia of course, but if they don't exist then other methods will be needed for the local populace to drive them out.

Originally posted by FMF
I have told a personal story about close friends of mine. People in deep trouble, all of them. If you want to turn it into some kind of opportunity to be an unfunny and cantankerous 'bully', I am not going to rise to it.

As I said, there is no obligation whatsoever for you to contribute to this thread. If you suspect I am lying then just say so and leave it a ...[text shortened]... not going to get drawn into a discussion with you about the fact that you suspect I am lying.

my apologies. im not trying to bully you.although i felt a little bullied by you on a couple of other topics, like when you called me a" shallow blow hard " 🙂 Im not calling you a liar. i think i said that before. with that being said i offer you a truce,pass the peace pipe so to speak. I wont ask you for anymore evidence,ok? btw i happen to be a very big dead fan myself and saw them many times in the 80's.I like your home page. PEACE

Originally posted by divegeester
Sounds like there is a case for legal action? I'm not familiar with the employment laws in Indonesia of course, but if they don't exist then other methods will be needed for the local populace to drive them out.

As I mentioned earlier, the hardline Islamic F.P.I. might do it. Thi sis how it would work. The F.P.I. would tell the police that they are going to take action against the cafe. The police would then go to the cafe and tell the owner that they cannot guarantee the cafe's safety. The cafe would then close. And that would be that. The owner would, true to recent form, no doubt, attribute the cafe's closure to "God's will".

Originally posted by FMF
As I mentioned earlier, the hardline Islamic F.P.I. might do it. Thi sis how it would work. The F.P.I. would tell the police that they are going to take action against the cafe. The police would then go to the cafe and tell the owner that they cannot guarantee the cafe's safety. The cafe would then close. And that would be that. The owner would, true to recent form, no doubt, attribute the cafe's closure to "God's will".

Sounds like a pretty heavy process; threats and intimidation. but if that is the best solution based on the local power base, then you must support your friends however you can. I'm sure god would cope with the cafe owners slander, in fact it probably would be gods will that the cafe closed!

Originally posted by KellyJay
What about pentacostals has wronged this guy?
What is it about being Pentacostal do you find so wrong?
Be specific.
Kelly

May I ask you, KellyJay:
You are a fundamentalist, you believe in creationism - are you a Pentacostal?

Originally posted by utherpendragon
my apologies. im not trying to bully you.although i felt a little bullied by you on a couple of other topics, like when you called me a" shallow blow hard " 🙂 Im not calling you a liar. i think i said that before. with that being said i offer you a truce,pass the peace pipe so to speak. I wont ask you for anymore evidence,ok? btw i happen to be a very big dead fan myself and saw them many times in the 80's.I like your home page. PEACE

Excellent news about the Dead. We should play some chess and cogitate them together.

I cannot prove a personal anecdote. But I recognize the retaliatory teasing you were dishing out!

Saying that it is 'common knowledge that the BBC is far left' is something that ought to be easily established with an example or two. Perhaps it IS far left in American eyes and according to the American political spectrum. But it is not 'far left' (I would argue) in terms of the world at large. A few examples (from their web site perhaps) of what makes you use the words 'far left' with respect to the BBC, might just address the linguistic "disconnect" that your assertion highlighted.

The pipe of peace thing is ok though. I'm even getting into the April 2009 shows of The Dead - and having come to it with skepticism aplenty, I am finding the music very sweet and Warren on top of his venerable game!

Originally posted by divegeester
you must support your friends however you can.

The weak do not have much of a chance against the rich in the legal system here, despite labour laws that are similar in appearance to those in the West. (The weak v rich stacked deck thing is seen, to a certain extent, in the West too, I think). And there being "religious" factors could make it messy and endless.

I am lending a hand to some of the staff to cobble together a business proposal to set up a new cafe. I hope they will choose an ecumenical theme.

it probably would be gods will that the cafe closed!

The irony is beautiful and self-fulfilling!

Originally posted by FMF
)I am lending a hand to some of the staff to cobble together a business proposal to set up a new cafe.

Sounds an excellent idea, they are fortunate to have someone who can do that sort of thing for them. The owner herself will need help too though.

Originally posted by KellyJay
What is it about being Pentacostal do you find so wrong?
Be specific.

Me personally? Well, I personally have no doubt whatsover, having come across it with various friends and in several contexts over the years, that the "speaking in tongues" thing is fraudulent. It's the 'religious' equivalent of dick waving (if you will pardon me venacular). Personal experience. Friends involved. No doubt whatsoever. It's bogus.

Originally posted by divegeester
Sounds an excellent idea, they are fortunate to have someone who can do that sort of thing for them. The owner herself will need help too though.

She needs to go back to Italy and watch her 1 year old baby take its first steps, if it hasn't already.

Originally posted by FMF
Then you mustn't have read the story. This woman is filled with religious fervour - a new thing in her life that has resulted from her being inducted into Pentacostalism. She "speaks in tongues" every day, prays ostentatiously and in a way that is clearly an imposition on others in the vicinity, and she cites Jesus/God/Holy Spirit whenever she announces a decisi lve Pentacostalism - a denomination that seems to give rise to countless stories like this.

Again, speaking in tongues forces her into being disloyal to people who
worked for her how? People who rob and steal watch TV does that mean
that everyone who watches TV robs and steals, show the connection as to
why it relates! Lots of people pray and speak in tongues that do not do
the sort of things she did, so again why do you think it matters?
Kelly

Originally posted by KellyJay
Again, speaking in tongues forces her into being disloyal to people who worked for her how? People who rob and steal watch TV does that mean that everyone who watches TV robs and steals, show the connection as to why it relates! Lots of people pray and speak in tongues that do not do the sort of things she did, so again why do you think it matters?

You seem to want to create a discussion driven by the fact that you don't read my posts before responding. I believe that "speaking in tongues" is completely fraudulent. I have tons of experience with it. It's a charade - perhaps sometimes powered by hysteria and self-deception, but all too often a deception of others.

Originally posted by FMF
You seem to want to create a discussion driven by the fact that you don't read my posts before responding. I believe that "speaking in tongues" is completely fraudulent. I have tons of experience with it. It's a charade - perhaps sometimes powered by hysteria and self-deception, but all too often a deception of others.

I don't care what you believe about speaking in tongues, that isn't the
topic of discussion. I disagree with you on tongues, but again what is it
about Pentacostalism that forces a person to behave as you described?
I pointed out to you people who watch TV do all manner of things, do we
credit TV with everything that is done by all people? What is it about your
story that suggests being a pentacostal had any direct affect upon the
person in question? People do stupid mean things with and without any
religion in their lives, so what happened in your opinion that caused this
bad behavior?
Kelly

Originally posted by FMF
You seem to want to create a discussion driven by the fact that you don't read my posts before responding. I believe that "speaking in tongues" is completely fraudulent. I have tons of experience with it. It's a charade - perhaps sometimes powered by hysteria and self-deception, but all too often a deception of others.

I've had tons of experience with tongues too, some fraudulent in my
opinion others very real in my opinion. What powers the fraudulent can
be a variety of different reasons, but the real only God's Spirit. If you
reject God's Holy Spirit out of hand you have blinders up against the truth
of the matter and no argument I can give will change your mind, a form
of self-deception in my opinion on how you view things.
Kelly

Originally posted by KellyJay
What is it about your story that suggests being a pentacostal had any direct affect upon the person in question?

Are you being serious?

She has left the Catholic Church and joined the local Pentacostal church. Everything she now does and says she explicitly and verbally attributes to this change in her life and change in her faith.

Didn't you read the story I wrote?