10 May 09
Originally posted by KellyJayGood for you. My tons of experience with people speaking in tongues - and the whole fraudulent shebang it represents - includes meeting people like you who have convinced themselves that some of it is "very real". But I think we can agree to differ.
I've had tons of experience with tongues too, some fraudulent in my
opinion others very real in my opinion.
10 May 09
1 edit
Originally posted by FMFI'm still crushed to discover that the Holy Spirit doesn't work in the restaurant security business. My tears of agony and shame made it hard to read the rest. Or not.
WARNING: soap-opera-esque post follows
Hold onto your hats for a modest tale of small town tragedy in a far off land that could be anywhere. The Indonesian wife-of-an-Italian-white-guy "owner" of a local bar & cafe (called Laba-Laba or "spider" ) returned in January, leaving a one year old baby - who'd not yet taken first steps or uttered a first word - behin
Anyone think I am getting this all wrong?
I don't see any reason to dispute your view. I've known people like that. Their religious fervor takes on remarkably odd decrees. Why does the Holy Spirit never tell them to feed the hungry, help the poor, wash the dishes, whatever?
If I were one of her employees, I'd rather be mopping floors somewhere else any day!
SPEAKING IN TONGUES: My sister tried to join one "Way Over The World" -- a religious cult that would teach her how to speak in tongues for a couple of hundred dollars!! I asked her to show me where in the Bible it said the Apostles went to a language class first...
10 May 09
Originally posted by pawnhandleror where they paid money for it!!
I'm still crushed to discover that the Holy Spirit doesn't work in the restaurant security business. My tears of agony and shame made it hard to read the rest. Or not.
I don't see any reason to dispute your view. I've known people like that. Their religious fervor takes on remarkably odd decrees. Why does the Holy Spirit never tell them to feed ...[text shortened]... her to show me where in the Bible it said the Apostles went to a language class first...
10 May 09
Originally posted by utherpendragon...or why it's somehow real now because it was written down in a 2,000 year old book by people who had little or no scientific understanding of things like hysteria etc. (or, indeed, little or no scientific understanding of anything to do with natural phenomena, psychology, physics etc. etc.), even assuming the events mentioned happened at all.
or where they paid money for it!!
10 May 09
Originally posted by FMFjust curious.what is your religious affiliation?
...or why it's somehow real now because it was written down in a 2,000 year old book by people who had little or no scientific understanding of things like hysteria etc. (or, indeed, little or no scientific understanding of anything to do with natural phenomena, psychology, physics etc. etc.), even assuming the events mentioned happened at all.
10 May 09
Originally posted by FMFYes read it, but outside of the people she is now hanging around with
Are you being serious?
She has left the Catholic Church and joined the local Pentacostal church. Everything she now does and says she explicitly and verbally attributes to this change in her life and change in her faith.
Didn't you read the story I wrote?
what changes in her life were caused by something Pentacostal that
directly led to her treating everyone badly? People hang around with the
wrong crowd all the time and do bad things, but what was it that was
'Pentacostal' that was bad that made her do those things? I know more
than a few people that are Pentacostal that don't act that way, so I do
not see the connection you do! Since not all Pentacostals behave in such
manner, what do you see that was "Pentacostal" that made her act that
way?
Kelly
10 May 09
Originally posted by FMFI don't have issue one there, we can agree to disagree.
Good for you. My tons of experience with people speaking in tongues - and the whole fraudulent shebang it represents - includes meeting people like you who have convinced themselves that some of it is "very real". But I think we can agree to differ.
Kelly
10 May 09
Originally posted by KellyJayI can scarcely believe your twisted logic, Kelly.
Yes read it, but outside of the people she is now hanging around with
what changes in her life were caused by something Pentacostal that
directly led to her treating everyone badly? People hang around with the
wrong crowd all the time and do bad things, but what was it that was
'Pentacostal' that was bad that made her do those things? I know more
than ...[text shortened]... behave in such
manner, what do you see that was "Pentacostal" that made her act that
way?
Let me paraphrase, if I may.
Kelly: I know Pentacostals that don't act in the way she has, so I see no connection between her (a Pentacostal) and Pentacostals who do not act in the way she has. Therefore Pentacostalism has nothing to do with it.
If this is the way you reason things out, then how can one possibly discuss anything with you?
10 May 09
Originally posted by FMFYou are the one presenting Pentecostalism has caused her to act that way,
I can scarcely believe your twisted logic, Kelly.
Let me paraphrase, if I may.
Kelly: [b]I know Pentacostals that don't act in the way she has, so I see no connection between her (a Pentacostal) and Pentacostals who do not act in the way she has. Therefore Pentacostalism has nothing to do with it.
If this is the way you reason things out, then how can one possibly discuss anything with you?[/b]
I'm trying to get you to tell me 'what part of being a Pentecostal' was it
that caused her to act that way! For me it seems to be the people she is
now hanging around with, you are suggesting simply being Pentecostal
is what is causing her to act that way! They are two different things in my
opinion, because as I have pointed out to you other "Pentecostals" do not
act that way. She could be in cult for all I know, but label Pentecostal can
be used by anyone as anyone can say they are a Democrat or a Republican
too, but the claim does not mean all Democrats or Republicans act a certain
way.
Kelly
10 May 09
Originally posted by FMFKelyJay is a master of what is called "Double truth":Thread 111529
I can scarcely believe your twisted logic, Kelly.
Let me paraphrase, if I may.
Kelly: [b]I know Pentacostals that don't act in the way she has, so I see no connection between her (a Pentacostal) and Pentacostals who do not act in the way she has. Therefore Pentacostalism has nothing to do with it.
If this is the way you reason things out, then how can one possibly discuss anything with you?[/b]
10 May 09
Originally posted by KellyJayShe is a pentacostal. She attributes all her decisions to what she describes as her direct personal experience of God through the baptism of the Holy Spirit. She cites the will of God, the will of Jesus and the will of the Holy Spirit at all times. She did not do this when she was a Catholic.
You are the one presenting Pentecostalism has caused her to act that way,
I'm trying to get you to tell me 'what part of being a Pentecostal' was it
that caused her to act that way! For me it seems to be the people she is
now hanging around with, you are suggesting simply being Pentecostal
is what is causing her to act that way! They are two different t ...[text shortened]... n
too, but the claim does not mean all Democrats or Republicans act a certain
way.
Kelly
Her embrace of pentacostalism has, in her mind and in her deeds, empowered her to use the spiritual power she feels her conversion has invested in her to direct her life, her interpersonal realtionships and her business decisions. She is not in the slightest bit embarrassed or uncertain about anything that has happened. She is utterly sincere. She is actively trying to recruit others now.
She is outwardly completely sane, and perfectly able to explain how she came about this transformation of her life through faith in Jesus and the importance of the ecstatic religious experience pentacostalism has given her. She is not hysterical, except when she's pretending to be filled with the Holy Spirit and she emits incomprehensible speech in an imaginary language, in a kind of trance state, seemingly an episode of religious ecstasy, or perhaps (if she really believes it's happening) schizophrenia. She believes emphatically that her meaningless glossolalia is expressing the mysteries of God to those around her - a key tenet of pentacostalism.
She is a pentacostal. A Fact is a fact. Her deeds are driven by her faith. Not all pentacostals are the same as her (although I believe they all are afflicted by more or less the same mental condition). You don't care too much for what she's doing: Does this mean - to you - that she isn't a pentacostal?
I never said all pentacostals are the same. Is this your only line of defence for this particular pentacostal person?
10 May 09
1 edit
There is no defence for what happened to those people as described in your account.
However i think what Kelly may be saying is that you have apparently pitched the awful situation as an arbitrary inference that Pentecostalism as a denomination of Christianity is bad, and that the people in that denomination are being homogenised and stereotyped by this generalisation.