Victims of Pentacostal Cultists

Originally posted by FMF
I don't know where you got the "cut off from the rest of the world" thing from. Sorry if I wasn't clear: she is the owner and manager of a bar in a busy tourist drag here in the Indonesian city of Yogyakarta.

She is a pentacostal. She attributes all her decisions to what she describes as her direct personal experience of God through the baptism of the Holy Sp ...[text shortened]... refers - in my mind - to the Muslims working in the cafe, not to the owner of the cafe.

You gave me the impression she cut off contact with those that worked
for her that were not her brand of Christian.

"She sacked the morning manager and the evening manager, who'd looked after the place for five years or so without fault and with cafe-defining personality. She replaced them with two very very serious christians - Pentacostals, it seems - who are not family members or conventional acquaintences, indeed there is a definite air of them having been "assigned" to her in some way. "

Kelly

Originally posted by KellyJay
You gave me the impression she cut off contact with those that worked for her that were not her brand of Christian.

Sorry if I gave the wrong impression. It's wasn't deliberate. Also, this story is still unfolding.

Originally posted by FMF
My local cafe is now teetering on the edge of closure after its owner fell into the hands of Pentacostals and lost all ability to manage the business.

Presumably no one here is going to defend Pentacostalism, right?

Gotta love those whacky Pentacostals...

Originally posted by FMF
Sorry if I gave the wrong impression. It's wasn't deliberate. Also, this story is still unfolding.

My bad than, sorry!
Kelly

Originally posted by kirksey957
I think you could make a case that there are many pentecostals who do see themselves cut off from the world. All the pentecostal churches in my area practice in isolation with no cooperative efforts with other denominations. They vilify other mainline denominations. They practice a theology of fatalism and isolationism. In fact, the more isolationist their thinking, the more "chosen" they are.

That trait isn't limited to Pentacostals, almost all belief systems do that and
people do it for other reasons too, skin color, nationality and so on.
Kelly

Originally posted by FMF
I don't know where you got the "cut off from the rest of the world" thing from. Sorry if I wasn't clear: she is the owner and manager of a bar in a busy tourist drag here in the Indonesian city of Yogyakarta.

She is a pentacostal. She attributes all her decisions to what she describes as her direct personal experience of God through the baptism of the Holy Sp refers - in my mind - to the Muslims working in the cafe, not to the owner of the cafe.

I don't know her, you do...you also don't believe in God from what I gather
so anything that has to so with the Spirit of God will be lost on you true
or not. The complaints I have seen you make really have nothing to do
with being a Pentacostal in my opinion, as I pointed out before. That does
not mean she isn't, she can be given bad advice in the name of God, that
happens all the time! People do strange things with and without God being
part of the process, when you suggest her being Pentacostal caused her
to act badly I wanted to know what "Pentacostal thing she was doing" that
caused this? It may have nothing to do with that movement but the people
she is now getting advice from.
Kelly

Originally posted by KellyJay
That trait isn't limited to Pentacostals, almost all belief systems do that and
people do it for other reasons too, skin color, nationality and so on.
Kelly

Can you give some examples.

Originally posted by KellyJay
That trait isn't limited to Pentacostals, almost all belief systems do that and
people do it for other reasons too, skin color, nationality and so on.
Kelly

In Zambia there is a "Council of Churches and having looked it up I now see there is also a "World council of Churches"
http://www.oikoumene.org/en/member-churches/regions/africa/zambia/ccz.html

I do not know whether any of the members are pentecostal.

I do know that there is quite a lot of co-operation between some denominations. I believe things like the Religious Education syllabus is largely set by the Council of Churches in Zambia.

Also some denominations like the Anglicans and Roman Catholics have a world wide organization, whereas others such as the "Church of Christ" (I believe there are various ones but I am talking about the one I know in Livingstone - I do not know its full name) seems to have each congregation on its own with nearly no interaction between congregations.

Of course the number of denominations is quite ridiculous. In Livingstone - population approx 100,000 we have over 150 denominations. I am fairly sure that the vast majority of their members don't really know what the theological differences are between them.

Originally posted by KellyJay
you also don't believe in God from what I gather so anything that has to so with the Spirit of God will be lost on you true or not.

Oh really? This is interesting. Do you think I don't understand Christian belief? What if I told you I used to believe, fervently so? Would that improve my credentials a little to comment on the impact of someone's belief? What if I told you I was an atheist from birth? Would that mean I had no credibility whatsoever commenting on these questions. What if I told you I did believe in God, but that I did so in th framework of the Muslim faith? Would you think that "anything that has to do with the Spirit of God will be lost on me"?

These are genuine questions, not rhetorical.

Originally posted by FMF
My local cafe is now teetering on the edge of closure after its owner fell into the hands of Pentacostals and lost all ability to manage the business.

Presumably no one here is going to defend Pentacostalism, right?

Another theory... Maybe she is suffering from postpartum depression and is acting out from a chemical imbalance and could be persuaded to get some medical help?

Originally posted by FMF
Oh really? This is interesting. Do you think I don't understand Christian belief? What if I told you I used to believe, fervently so? Would that improve my credentials a little to comment on the impact of someone's belief? What if I told you I was an atheist from birth? Would that mean I had no credibility whatsoever commenting on these questions. What if I told ...[text shortened]... with the Spirit of God will be lost on me"?

These are genuine questions, not rhetorical.

Educate me; I'm going on very limited information from you so far when
you are talking about another topic. Like I said from what I gathered you
gave me that impression, it doesn't make me correct it only means I believe
this about you from what I have read so far. I'd be very happy to hear your
story if your incline to share it.
Kelly

Originally posted by KellyJay
Educate me; I'm going on very limited information from you so far when
you are talking about another topic. Like I said from what I gathered you
gave me that impression, it doesn't make me correct it only means I believe
this about you from what I have read so far. I'd be very happy to hear your
story if your incline to share it.
Kelly

How about we keep it hypothetical?

(1) What if I told you I used to believe, fervently so? Would that improve my credentials a little to comment on the impact of someone's belief? If I'd lost my faith - but still recalled what it was like to have faith - would you think I would still be able to understand Christian belief?

(2) What if I told you I was an atheist from birth? Would that mean I had no credibility whatsoever commenting on these questions.

(3) What if I told you I did believe in God, but that I did so in the framework of the Muslim faith? Would you think that "anything that has to do with the Spirit of God will be lost on me"?

Originally posted by FMF
How about we keep it hypothetical?

(1) What if I told you I used to believe, fervently so? Would that improve my credentials a little to comment on the impact of someone's belief? If I'd lost my faith - but still recalled what it was like to have faith - would you think I would still be able to understand Christian belief?

(2) What if I told you I was an ...[text shortened]... h? Would you think that "anything that has to do with the Spirit of God will be lost on me"?

Okay straight answers not forth coming, just say you don't want to share.

With respect to your guessing game questions:
1. I am of the opinion we either have a relationship with God in Christ or
we do not. You could say you believed, but that does not make you a
Christian, as simply believing isn't enough as the scripture points out, the
devil believes.

2. Being an Atheist does stop you from accepting any notion that God does
by His Spirit live in and guide people. It does not limit your credibility as far
as I'm consern I respect many of the atheist I know and would take their
words over some that call themselves believers; however, that does not
add to their righteousness before God, only me.

3. I'd refer you back to may statement in #1 about being a Christian is to
have a relationship with God in Christ, if you had one and it was real, you'd
never go back and say God isn't real, because your relationship would
always remind of the truth in God. It isn't a hard thing to walk away from
anything false and if you believed but your walk with God wasn't real, I can
see how you could say you once believed but no longer. It was never on
a real relationship with God in Christ so you have no truth to bear witness
to in your heart, you would only have the going through the motions or
the peer pressure that kept you in line. Just a man made thing, with only
the power of man keeping you in line. From that perspective I'd say you'd
have some of the talk down, but know nothing about the walk, it would
always be lost on you, because you never had it.
Kelly

Originally posted by KellyJay
Okay straight answers not forth coming, just say you don't want to share. With respect to your guessing game questions:...

I said I wanted to keep it hypothetical! Does that mean that I am depriving you of "straight answers"?? You think I HAVE to reveal to you details of my private and personal faith? I don't and you get huffy? How sublimely petty can you get?

Thanks for all your help with this matter.

Originally posted by FMF
I said I wanted to keep it hypothetical! Does that mean that I am depriving you of "straight answers"?? You think I HAVE to reveal to you details of my private and personal faith? I don't and you get huffy? How sublimely petty can you get?

Thanks for all your help with this matter.

I pointed out to you if you don't want to share don't, it wasn't being
huffy it was simply asking a straight forward question, there are things I
do not talk about here and when asked I say I as much. Not trying to
drag anything out of you that you want to keep to yourself, by all means
and more power to you, don't take what I said as a slam on you for not
wanting to share, it was for just not coming out and saying as much.
Kelly