Wars and Famines

Originally posted by googlefudge
And people have been saying that for centuries.

And none of it matters because you have no foundation for believing that god exists, and
thus your hugely open to interpretation 'prophecies' mean absolutely nothing.

EDIT: things are much better now than they were then... so things have gone from bad to better.

Prophecy disproved... religion busted... time for lunch...

Well I know God exist and I see that everyday. Sorry you don't...

Originally posted by galveston75
Well I know God exist and I see that everyday. Sorry you don't...

No you don't.

Knowledge REQUIRES the ability to demonstrate it.

You can't demonstrate gods existence to anyone else, you don't know god exists.

You believe god exists, on pure blind faith.

There is no evidence for god, and certainly there is none 'all around us'.

Originally posted by googlefudge
No you don't.

Knowledge REQUIRES the ability to demonstrate it.

You can't demonstrate gods existence to anyone else, you don't know god exists.

You believe god exists, on pure blind faith.

There is no evidence for god, and certainly there is none 'all around us'.

more bum, if a person wants to draw inferences from an examination of the natural
world and claim that its evidence there is nothing you can do about it nor dispute its
validity, are you going to state that it does not demonstrate signs of harmony, design, a
purpose? are you? How shall you proceed? erm it doesn't appear to me to be
harmonious, proving what, nada, just because you have limited your truths to
unintelligent agencies doesn't mean other people are like minded.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
more bum, if a person wants to draw inferences from an examination of the natural
world and claim that its evidence there is nothing you can do about it nor dispute its
validity, are you going to state that it does not demonstrate signs of harmony, design, a
purpose? are you? How shall you proceed? erm it doesn't appear to me to be
harmonio ...[text shortened]... ave limited your truths to
unintelligent agencies doesn't mean other people are like minded.

there is something we can do about it. we can dismiss those inferences as having beliefs on faith without evidence.

a natural order in the world, weather there is no not is not proof of god either way. you have to be able to show it.

you can come upon a hole filled with water. it may seem very ordered and harmonious, you can even infer that the hole was created specifically to hold the water since the water fits there perfectly. your inference would not be considered proof.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
more bum, if a person wants to draw inferences from an examination of the natural
world and claim that its evidence there is nothing you can do about it nor dispute its
validity, are you going to state that it does not demonstrate signs of harmony, design, a
purpose? are you? How shall you proceed? erm it doesn't appear to me to be
harmonio ...[text shortened]... ave limited your truths to
unintelligent agencies doesn't mean other people are like minded.

The problem with people like you, Dasa and RJHinds drawing "inferences from an examination of the natural world" is that it subsequently goes into a psychological superstitious snowball hurtling downhill to 'homosexuals getting the death penalty' (you), 'people who have a different belief system are working for Satan' (RJHinds) and 'All Muslim men should be terminated' etc. etc. ad nauseam.

Originally posted by VoidSpirit
there is something we can do about it. we can dismiss those inferences as having beliefs on faith without evidence.

a natural order in the world, weather there is no not is not proof of god either way. you have to be able to show it.

you can come upon a hole filled with water. it may seem very ordered and harmonious, you can even infer that the h ...[text shortened]... d the water since the water fits there perfectly. your inference would not be considered proof.

no you cannot, because the person has examined the natural world and can point to
intricate harmonious systems. If he or she wishes to ascribe to those intricate system
an intelligence, what will you say, there is no harmony, their is no intelligence in design,
i dont think so, no reasonable person sound in mind observes a complex system
animate or inanimate and does not wonder at its concept as demonstrating design and
intelligence, only those who have limited their thinking to unintelligent agencies have
done so.

Originally posted by googlefudge
and?

The Japan tsunami killed twenty odd thousand and the boxing day tsunami killed hundreds of thousands.

The American war's in Iraq and Afghanistan killed tens if not hundreds of thousands.

9/11 probably doesn't factor in the top 50 most fatal events of the last decade.

And more people die annually in car crashes in the USA than died on 9/1 atalities about once every month on average.

None of which has any baring on my arguments.

9/11 bars your argument a bit. As you say, so much fuss was made over just 3000 or so Americans.
When it was on, it was on every tv station for how long????? It must've been at least a week. I dont know about American TV, but here in Australia were generally (coerced) into being scared, stocking up on cans of food and stuff like that.

Every flight was being monitered. The whole millenia kicked of to a perfect start by the powers that be. Just Awful, no doubt. New and more budgetting for the military, hunt for Santa Clauses evil twin (Saddam Hussein) , who took a while to find and was decidedely unthreatening looking from the pics I saw.
I bet most people are frightened by that event that perhaps any other in their lives.
Even for people in Australia!! C'mon people . Get a grip. The secret governments control all that stuff.


"They" tried to put the whole planet into "fear mode" and see what would happen,etc? ,(see what religious loonies might do abroad AND in the US ).
Also , a whole bunch of other stuff.

Originally posted by galveston75
Well I know God exist and I see that everyday. Sorry you don't...

Even if God exists , you have to look at the facts. And they tend to show a decline in war and famine, per capita than say 100 years ago, when the world was definatetly more "Male-orientated" . Cant you guys see this? you are desparately trying to convince us that the world is worse than before. Why? So it fullfills your deep held views?

Sorry, g-man, I dont ususally get nasty with you, but I dont see why you cant try to have more of a general understanding of how things really are,(beyond KHall).
Firstly you use a computer, no problem. It's there, you can buy it.
For someone living 100 years ago could you imagine trying to convince anyone of the future in 100 years, of telling them about computers, the internet, the way people fly on a daily basis,etc. ,(except, perhaps some "deeper thinkers/scientists" ).
The general population would laugh at you and you would be ridiculed. This is a basic lesson that is common sense to people all over the world.

So God or no God, I see a decidedly more intelligent and hence potentially more peaceful,intelligent youth coming through. We just have to educate them with our experience,eh?

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
more bum, if a person wants to draw inferences from an examination of the natural
world and claim that its evidence there is nothing you can do about it nor dispute its
validity, are you going to state that it does not demonstrate signs of harmony, design, a
purpose? are you? How shall you proceed? erm it doesn't appear to me to be
harmonio ...[text shortened]... ave limited your truths to
unintelligent agencies doesn't mean other people are like minded.

Sorry Robbie; inferences are not evidence. (No matter how many people accept it as such)

I've just taken up bridge and one of the great skills I have to learn is placing the cards in the correct hands. This is done by considering the bidding and the play and probability.

I can maybe infer (with great accuracy) where the Ace of Spades is but I can never prove it.

I'm afraid your god is the same - you have made enough inferences to believe in his existance - but you have no evidence.

Originally posted by RBHILL
If you take the time and read the list of wars and famine in history on the wikipedia site. You will see that there has been more wars fought in modern days then in the past. Same goes for famines list.

Which period do you describe as 'modern days'?

I honestly don't believe you have a case. In my history books there were far more wars and famines in the past than we experience today.

How about you give us some actual stats listing the number of wars / famines each century for the last 10,000 years?

Originally posted by twhitehead
Which period do you describe as 'modern days'?

I honestly don't believe you have a case. In my history books there were far more wars and famines in the past than we experience today.

How about you give us some actual stats listing the number of wars / famines each century for the last 10,000 years?

The problem of course is the lack of written evidence, however one only has to look at say BC Britain to see that most communities lived in hill forts (or at least had one to retreat to). The truth is that people in antiquity were in a constant state of war and on the edge of starvation every year.

Originally posted by twhitehead
Which period do you describe as 'modern days'?

I honestly don't believe you have a case. In my history books there were far more wars and famines in the past than we experience today.

How about you give us some actual stats listing the number of wars / famines each century for the last 10,000 years?

Again I would throw in the account for the population shift in the last 100 years.
It just hit 7billion a few weeks ago, and how many were alive 100 years ago on th earth? 1billion? I dont think it was even that ...

Originally posted by wolfgang59
The problem of course is the lack of written evidence, however one only has to look at say BC Britain to see that most communities lived in hill forts (or at least had one to retreat to). The truth is that people in antiquity were in a constant state of war and on the edge of starvation every year.

But what written evidence there is, points towards there having been more wars and famines in the past.
Maybe I went too far back. After all, RBHILL is probably most concerned about Biblical prophesy written 2000 years ago, so we should be most concerned about the last 2000 years. I think that the last 50 years have been the most peaceful, most famine free years in the last 2000 years.
I suspect that RBHILL is making the mistake of assuming that the famines / wars listed on a page on Wikipedia reflect the actual numbers of famines/wars at the time - which is obviously untrue.
From wikipedia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Famine

According to John Iliffe, "Portuguese records of Angola from the 16th century show that a great famine occurred on average every seventy years; accompanied by epidemic disease, it might kill one-third or one-half of the population, destroying the demographic growth of a generation and forcing colonists back into the river valleys."

Yet if you go to to
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_famines
Which is presumably the list RBHILL is referring too, Angola isn't even mentioned.

Originally posted by twhitehead
But what written evidence there is, points towards there having been more wars and famines in the past.
Maybe I went too far back. After all, RBHILL is probably most concerned about Biblical prophesy written 2000 years ago, so we should be most concerned about the last 2000 years. I think that the last 50 years have been the most peaceful, most famine fr f_famines
Which is presumably the list RBHILL is referring too, Angola isn't even mentioned.

"maybe I went too far back...".

You definately did. Those 2000 years include the "dark ages" as well as many well defined, and badly defined periods (of history), continued war between many countries,etc. (many a other quirky transitions)
I think it is important to reflect on the changes in the last 100 years, dont you think so? Much more relevant in so many ways.

Imagine exactly 100 years ago living in 1912?

What a completely different world with different prospects then!!

What a long way we have come in a hundred years,no?

Originally posted by wolfgang59
Sorry Robbie; inferences are not evidence. (No matter how many people accept it as such)

I've just taken up bridge and one of the great skills I have to learn is placing the cards in the correct hands. This is done by considering the bidding and the play and probability.

I can maybe infer (with great accuracy) where the Ace of Spades is [b]but I ...[text shortened]... same - you have made enough inferences to believe in his existance - but you have no evidence.[/b]

its evidence to the people who are drawing the inferences.