05 Mar 09
Originally posted by dystoniac😵
Jesus and Mohammad were not equal. Jesus was God incarnate; Muhammad was simply a man who devised a religion based on visions and dreams. Christianity's foundation rests on the fact that Jesus died on the cross, was entombed, and rose from the dead and defeated death. Mohammad simply died. Where he went afterwards....only God knows.
05 Mar 09
1 edit
Originally posted by FMFI can see why Muslims would be upset about how Christians view Jesus. That is their problem, not mine. Why should they find the fact that God gave His only begotten Son so that man would have everlasting life blasphemous? It sounds like the ultimate act of love. I can also understand Islam's theological point about Allah not having to be more than he already is-almighty Allah; however, I disagree with their stsndpoint because The Bible's prohecies have become reality and continue to be realized even today. What did the Qu'ran prophesy that is coming true today? Christianity's bedrock is faith and trust in Jesus Christ as the Saviour. What is Islam's bedrock?
Only Christians believe this. No other religions subscribe to this theory. Many Muslims find it rather belittling of God, as they see him. Some indeed find it blasphemous albeit tollerable, and one can see their theological point, regardles of whether one agrees with it.
05 Mar 09
If your basis is using the scripture and all that is contained therein, then you would know the execution of Jesus was not based on being just or unjust. His death had to take place to open what had been closed by Adam's sin. If you are basing His execution on the laws of the Jews of that period, then His death was just in the Jewish leaders eyes. If you base this execution on Roman law, then it would be unjust.
05 Mar 09
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Originally posted by dystoniacPersonal, direct relationship with God.
Christianity's bedrock is faith and trust in Jesus Christ as the Saviour. What is Islam's bedrock?
Why should they find the fact that God gave His only begotten Son so that man would have everlasting life. It sounds like the ultimate act of love.
It sounds like an ancient fairy tale. "God gave His only begotten Son so that man would have everlasting life", just sounds like words, a lyric, a kind of duckspeak, a platitude, a product of overwrought superstitious imaginations careering around 2,000 years ago. I am not trying to provoke you. Christians believe that Jesus rose from the dead and was God all along anyway. Sounds like - in so far as death can in fact have any "meaning" per se - the most meaningless death in human history.
05 Mar 09
Originally posted by PudgenikOk, I'll buy that....in fact, Pontious Pilate could find no wrong-doing on Jesus' part. He caved in to the demands of the Jews. Good point.
If your basis is using the scripture and all that is contained therein, then you would know the execution of Jesus was not based on being just or unjust. His death had to take place to open what had been closed by Adam's sin. If you are basing His execution on the laws of the Jews of that period, then His death was just in the Jewish leaders eyes. If you base this execution on Roman law, then it would be unjust.
05 Mar 09
Originally posted by FMFYou can't provoke me.. 😉
Personal, direct relationship with God.
[b]Why should they find the fact that God gave His only begotten Son so that man would have everlasting life. It sounds like the ultimate act of love.
It sounds like an ancient fairy tale. "God gave His only begotten Son so that man would have everlasting life", just sounds like words, a lyric, a kind of duck ...[text shortened]... can in fact [i]have any "meaning" per se - the most meaningless death in human history.[/b]
Christians can have a direct and personal relationship with God too.
I know it sounds unbelievable, but that is the point; it has to be believed in order to reap the rewards. Are you suggesting that the Qu'ran doesn't have some wild 'imaginary' tales among its Suras..
Most meaningless death?... 180 degree opposite...it was the most important event ever.
05 Mar 09
Originally posted by dystoniacI know. But there's no Jesus figure. Muslims most certainly do not worship Muhammed.
Christians can have a direct and personal relationship with God too.
Are you suggesting that the Qu'ran doesn't have some wild 'imaginary' tales among its Suras.
No I'm not.
Most meaningless death?... 180 degree opposite...it was the most important event ever.
I just don't buy into it.
The explanations I hear - like for instance His death had to take place to open what had been closed by Adam's sin - I just find them to be meaningless words.
If I laid down my life so that my sons could live, well, that death might be said to have 'meaning'.
Jesus didn't really die and He was God anyway, well, the only 'meaning' it has seems to be that it was a meaningless gesture. It proved nothing. Achieved nothing. Except it's given rise to a lot of mumbo-jumbo which - when you dissect it, looking for it's so-called "meaning" - just kind of disappears.
05 Mar 09
Originally posted by bill718What does "pay the penalty for humanities sins" mean? It doesn't mean anything. How was God allowing Himself to be executed, when He would rise from the dead anyway, paying any "penalty" for anything?
in a divine sense it was very just if Jesus were to pay the penalty for humanities sins.😏
05 Mar 09
Originally posted by bill718I have asked others before how that works and I still don't understand the explanation (though some have tried to explain it to me).
That's a very good question! I'd say in an earthly sense it was unjust, in a divine sense it was very just if Jesus were to pay the penalty for humanities sins.😏
How does one pay the penalty for another's crime, and is that just? What does it achieve?
Is there some heavenly tally of sins for which a penalty must be paid by someone? Why?
05 Mar 09
Originally posted by dystoniacNobody can save you dystoniac, this idea is false. You have tied down yourself on your own, and you have the full responsibility for this outcome, so how can you be saved? In fact, you want to keep up living tied down. So why should someone save you?
I can see why Muslims would be upset about how Christians view Jesus. That is their problem, not mine. Why should they find the fact that God gave His only begotten Son so that man would have everlasting life blasphemous? It sounds like the ultimate act of love. I can also understand Islam's theological point about Allah not having to be more than he a ...[text shortened]... nity's bedrock is faith and trust in Jesus Christ as the Saviour. What is Islam's bedrock?
😵
05 Mar 09
Originally posted by ThinkOfOneSo the message is if someone murders your loved one offer them your other family member? Come on man, that is not what is beng said here.
[/b], 'AN EYE FOR AN EYE, AND A TOOTH FOR A TOOTH.' 39 "[b[But I say to you,[/b] do not resist an evil person; but whoever slaps you on your right cheek, turn the other to him also.[/i]
05 Mar 09
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Originally posted by ThinkOfOneMy point is, we are both in favor of "punishment". So does punishment equate grace and mercy like the mercy shown the woman caught in adultery? I could turn to you and say, if you don't show them mercy and let them go like the woman caught in adultery you are not a follower of Jesus. Of course, I think we both agree that is not the message being shown here by Jesus.
"I don't view it as a mandate across the boards to show mercy to everyone that violates the law, otherwise you would have lawlessness. In fact, why have any laws at all? Why have prisons? Why have judges and lawyers......wait.....no lawyers? That's it!!! We would all be so much happier without them. Now why didn't I think of that before!!"
mption. Dead men can do neither. Do you have any regard for the teachings of Jesus?[/b]
So the real question is, which form of punishment is preferable? Is it locking them up for the rest of their lives or is it capital punishment? You are still stuck with the fact that the Mosaic law instructs the people to render an eye for an eye. Therefore, you would have to say that such a law was not inspired by God. In addition, you are left with the warning Jesus left us that he had not come to destroy the law nor overturn the law, rather, he had come to fulfill the law with a far superior alternative on a personal level.
Edit: I wonder what the money changers in the temple who were whipped by Jesus would say regarding his tendency towards capital punishment? 😛