Originally posted by sonshipIt has rather been on the FACT that the Christians as children of God will be like Him.
[quote] 1 John 3
4Everyone who sins breaks the law; in fact, sin is lawlessness. 5But you know that he appeared so that he might take away our sins. And in him is no sin. 6[b]No one who lives in him keeps on sinning. No one who continues to sin has either seen him or known him.
7Dear children, do not let anyone lead you astray. The one who does wha ...[text shortened]... ith other passages on the processes of sanctification and transformation yield no contradiction.
And who are the "children of God"?
The author of 1 John makes it clear:
1 John 3
4Everyone who sins breaks the law; in fact, sin is lawlessness. 5But you know that he appeared so that he might take away our sins. And in him is no sin. 6No one who lives in him keeps on sinning. No one who continues to sin has either seen him or known him.
7Dear children, do not let anyone lead you astray. The one who does what is right is righteous, just as he is righteous. 8The one who does what is sinful is of the devil, because the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the devil’s work. 9No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God’s seed remains in them; they cannot go on sinning, because they have been born of God. 10This is how we know who the children of God are and who the children of the devil are: Anyone who does not do what is right is not God’s child, nor is anyone who does not love their brother and sister.
Those who have been born of God do not continue to sin. In fact, they CANNOT continue to sin. They are the children of God.
Those who continue to sin have neither seen Him or known Him. They have not been born of God. They are not the children of God.
The author of 1 John is explicit and unambiguous about these FACTS.
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So ToO, is there something in verses 4 through 10 which argues against the fact that the Christians will be like Christ ?
"Everyone who practices practices lawlessness"I think is a better translation of verse 4.
There is a difference between a practice and an occasion of falling into a sin.
I think the former "practice" is more habitual.
By growth the believer must learn to put to death the PRACTICES of the body.
Surely the process of purifying oneself in preparation to meet the Lord Jesus to see Him would include growing to overcome practices which are displeasing to Him.
" And you know that He was manifested that He might take away sins; and sin is not in Him." (v.5)
That is great news. So I must bring more and more of my being and my living INTO Him. For in Him is no sin.
This is a process.
Have you begun the process ?
" Everyone who abides in Him does not sin; everyone who sins has not seen Him or known Him." (v.6)
I don't know how you would take this verse. But I take it as good news. It means I must increase my abiding in Him. The extent of my abiding in Him as a living available Person, must grow, expand, and deepen.
As I am abiding more and more in Him I am also spontaneously purifying myself too.
"And everyone who has this hope set on Him purifies himself, even as He is pure." (v.3)
Do you have this hope set on Him, that you will see Him even as He is?
Do you purify yourself in your love for Him ?
Am I getting too personal ?
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Originally posted by ThinkOfOne
[b] It has rather been on the FACT that the Christians as children of God will be like Him.
And who are the "children of God"?
The author of 1 John makes it clear:
[quote]1 John 3
4Everyone who sins breaks the law; in fact, sin is lawlessness. 5But you know that he appeared so that he might take away our sins. And in him is no sin. 6No one ...[text shortened]... not the children of God.
The author of 1 John is explicit and unambiguous about these FACTS.
And who are the "children of God"?
The author of 1 John makes it clear:
Not contradicting your evidence, you must include also that verse 1,2.
"Behold what manner of love the Father has given to us, that we should be called children of God; and we are. "
John himself, AND the Christians whom comprise the audience of his fellowship there are the WE who are the children of God ...
" ...and we are,"
Then He says that he and his audience are NOW the children of God.
He does not say that off on some future day they might be.
Rather presently as he writes . NOW they are.
"Beloved, now we are children of God, ..." (v.2a)
Originally posted by sonshipI think is a better translation of verse 4.
So ToO, is there something in verses 4 through 10 which argues against the fact that the Christians will be like Christ ?
[b] "Everyone who practices practices lawlessness"
There is a difference between a practice and an occasion of falling into a sin.
I think the former "practice" ...[text shortened]... im even as He is?
Do you purify yourself in your love for Him ?
Am I getting too personal ?[/b]I think is a better translation of verse 4.
You may think it's "better", but the fact is that it is improper.
The word you have translated as "practice" is poieó which literally means "to make, do".
If the author of 1 John had meant "practice" he would have used the word prassó
Strong's Exhaustive Concordance makes the distinction clear in its entry for prassó:
4238. prassó commit, do, perform
A primary verb; to "practise", i.e. Perform repeatedly or habitually (thus differing from poieo, which properly refers to a single act);
Like I said:
Those who have been born of God do not continue to sin. In fact, they CANNOT continue to sin. They are the children of God.
Those who continue to sin have neither seen Him or known Him. They have not been born of God. They are not the children of God.
The author of 1 John is explicit and unambiguous about these FACTS.
24 Jun 17
Originally posted by sonship[b] " Beloved, now we are children of God, and it has not yet been manifested what we will be. We know that if He is manifested, we will be like Him because we will see Him even as He is." (1 John 3:2)
In eternity we will be like Christ.
We will have His attitudes and tastes and feeling.
What He loves we will love.
What He hates w ...[text shortened]... ved person who receives the life of God mingled into his life.
"We will be like Him." [/b]Boring. Variety is the spice of life.
Why would everyone want to be the same.
More 'one size fits all' dogma
24 Jun 17
Originally posted by wolfgang59if we knew for 100% for sure we'll die, then I suspect people will make the most of the time they have here left. Rape, loot. snort coke etc. Have fun with guns. Play at Augusta .... y'know .. have fun
If everyone has the same likes, attitudes, tastes, feelings, loves and hates.
What will differentiate you all?
Effectively everyone will cease to be.
You'll be DEAD.
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3 edits
Originally posted by karoly aczelTwo questions you could answer for me without evasion:
Boring. Variety is the spice of life.
Why would everyone want to be the same.
More 'one size fits all' dogma
1.) Who on the face of this planet in human history do you think lived the most interesting life ?
2.) Do you think that the size of the universe is "one size fits all" boring ?
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Originally posted by ThinkOfOneThe Greek grammer I will look into latter with more study.
Like I said:
Those who have been born of God do not continue to sin.
We have been through this before. So my reply carries no expectation that you will receive anything helpful. You can believe whatever you want.
The fact that John writes:
"Everyone who has been begotten of God does not practice sin, because His seed abides in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been begotten of God." (v.9)
does not render the following changes to these verses the Apostle John ALSO wrote in the same letter:
" Behold what manner of love the Father has given to us, that we should be called CHILDREN OF GOD; and we are ..." (1 John 1:1a)
You may not want to be called one of the "children of God" but many of us receive the designation with great joy.
"Beloved, NOW we are children of God, ..." (v.2)
Maybe your conscience protests to the point that you REFUSE to allow the New Testament to say that you NOW are one of the children of God. But some of us, like the receivers of John's letter, receive the news gladly, in humility.
The fact that John states that the one born of God does not practice sin does not render the previous instruction useless or meaningless:
"If we [children of God in fellowship with THE FATHER of those said children] our sins, He is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us." (1 John 1:9,10)
As much as you may long for it to happen 1 John 3:9] does not suddenly make 1 John 1:9,10 disappear from the text.
Neither does the fact that the men and women born of God do not practice sin make this equally emphatic exhortation go away:
"I write to you, little children, because your sins have been forgiven you because of His name." ( 2:12)
I am in need to hear this promise today if you are not.
And I suspect that next WEEK this time this will still be a comforting verse for me to hear.
I know that I have God's SEED in me.
And I know that that divine SEED is growing.
And on the way to its full growth in this born of God man, I suspect never to graduate from the need to be reminded that the blood of Jesus Christ God's Son cleanses us from every sin.
Christ is being FORMED ... in me as the SEED of God's divine life is growing.
And like Paul who travailed in labor to help us grow so did John.
" My children, with whom I travail again in birth until Christ be formed in you." 9Gal. 4:18)
I know what kind of work the apostles of Christ were doing.
I don't know what kind of work you think you are doing.
In fact, they CANNOT continue to sin. They are the children of God.
That is a fact. So utmost importance must be given to the GROWTH of the divine SEED that the sinner receives in being regenerated. I see the apostles of Christ giving labor to the work of growing the seed of the Son of God in people.
I don't know what kind of work you are doing.
Those who continue to sin have neither seen Him or known Him. They have not been born of God. They are not the children of God.
Well, I have seen God.
I need to see more of God.
To see more of the glory of God is the beholding and reflecting that Paul speaks of in his verse about transformation.
"But we all with unveiled face, beholding and reflecting like a mirror the glory o the Lord, are being TRANSFORMED into the same image from glory to glory even as from the Lord Spirit." (2 Cor. 3:18)
I have to "see" God in order to behold and reflect Him.
And I have to continuously do so in order to pass from one degree of glory to the next unto the final destination.
And I am one of the children of God.
Sorry that you do not have the confidence to say that you are.
Believing the New Testament would help.
The author of 1 John is explicit and unambiguous about these FACTS.
But you are very selective about the facts that you want to stress.
I choose to equally believe and emphasize ALL of the facts that he relates.
For example:
" Beloved, NOW ... we are children of God ..." (v.2)
is EQUALLY important to us as:
" Everyone who has been begotten of God does not practice sin, because His seed abides in him; and he cannot sin because he has been begotten of God." ( 3:9)
We in the local churches do not use one passage to fight against the other.
We do not say one truth makes the other untrue.
We reserve the right to believe all that our Father has spoken to us through his apostle.
Your sectarian heart desires to fight one part of the New Testament with another part.
Lastly here the fact that there is still a consummation of growth, development, and full transformation of the indwelling divine SEED is proved by John saying that it does not YET ... appear what we will be.
"Beloved, now we are children of God, and it has not yet been manifested what we will be. We know that if He is manifested, we will be like Him because we will see Him even as He is."
That what we Christians WILL finally be manifested to be - "like Him" in no way proves that we are not presently NOW ... "children of God". And we are in the growth of the seed and in the process of overcoming sinning.
That is the normal Christian life, if not the average Christian life.
I seek the normal Christian life.
Originally posted by sonshipC'mon jaywill. The bulk of your argument in the post to which I responded hinged on the idea that the author of 1 John was speaking of "habitual" sin which is clearly not true.
The Greek grammer I will look into latter with more study.
Like I said:
Those who have been born of God do not continue to sin.
We have been through this before. So my reply carries no expectation that you will receive anything helpful. You can believe whatever you want.
The fact that [b]John writes:
[quote] "Everyon ...[text shortened]... the normal Christian life, if not the average Christian life.
I seek the normal Christian life.
As such the following still stands:
Those who have been born of God do not continue to sin. In fact, they CANNOT continue to sin. They are the children of God.
Those who continue to sin have neither seen Him or known Him. They have not been born of God. They are not the children of God.
The author of 1 John is explicit and unambiguous about these FACTS.
In 1 John 3:1-2, the author of 1 John states his belief that he and at least some of those in his audience are children of God.
In 1 John 3:4-10, the author of 1 John defines what it takes to be a child of God. There he clearly points out that a child of God not only does not continue to sin, he CANNOT continue to sin.
The implication is that the author of 1 John believes that he and at least some of those in his audience are children of God which he subsequently defines as those who not only do not, but CANNOT continue to sin.
You took 1 John 1:9-10 out of context. If you read that passage in its entirety, the author of 1 John makes it clear that he is speaking of those who "walk in the light, as he is in the light". Which of course would be those who are children of God whom he later defines as those who do not continue to sin - CANNOT continue to sin. It only makes sense that only those who do not continue to sin would be those who "walk in the light, as he is in the light"
1 John 1
5This is the message we have heard from him and declare to you: God is light; in him there is no darkness at all. 6If we claim to have fellowship with him and yet walk in the darkness, we lie and do not live out the truth. 7But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus, his Son, purifies us from all sin.8If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us. 9If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness. 10If we claim we have not sinned, we make him out to be a liar and his word is not in us.
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There is no use giving me a folksy "C'mon sonship " as if I would expect your heretical system to be reasonable about it.
The bulk of your argument in the post to which I responded hinged on the idea that the author of 1 John was speaking of "habitual" sin which is clearly not true.
No that was not the BULK. SOME attention was given to that. You WISH it was the "bulk" of me pointing out your errors there.
You didn't have the courage to admit that your Jesus is DEAD and GONE. I don't expect you to have the courage to admit that your Jesus will not be "manifested".
The present day "children of God" await to be manifested whenever He is manifested. Which manifestation is most likely not a part of your system.
" Beloved, now we are children of God .... We know that if He is manifested, we will be like Him ..."
It doesn't teach that the Christians are all together NOT like Him now in some degree.
It doesn't teach that the Christians must WAIT until a future time when they will BE ABLE declare that they are "children of God".
While they await His manifestation and their being MORE like Him, they are presently in the church age "the children of God".
No amount of folksy "C'mon sonship" can change this.
They cannot be children of God unless they are BORN of God.
And if they are BORN of God then they have God's SEED in them (sinless and all).
You don't believe Christ will be manifested because you don't believe Christ rose from the dead and ascended.
You imply that only Christian of sinless perfection can claim to have the non-sinning SEED of God's divine life. But then that would make any reference to "children of God" untrue. Yet the same Apostle John says that "NOW" he is writing to the children of God.
So he must be writing to those who are BORN of the Father - God.
And so they must have the non-sinning divine SEED of God within them even BEFORE Christ is manifested.
You are attempting to exploit transformation to be a hyper-sinless perfection sanctification of Christians in the church age.
"But those born of God cannot commit sin - PERIOD" you argue.
I agree with that but recognize that transformation is a process.
And sanctification is also a process.
And conformation is also a process.
Your abuse of the passage is akin to someone saying "Everyone who is born goes and settles down to have a family." The twisting of the concept seeks to erase the need for growth and maturity. John is saying what you quote but not teaching what you teach - hyper-sanctification equaling sinless perfection before anyone can claim a life relationship with God the Father.
The real nature of your explanations are a destructive ATTACK against the Gospel utilizing words of the Apostle.
As such the following still stands:
Those who have been born of God do not continue to sin. In fact, they CANNOT continue to sin. They are the children of God.
And I could twist the truth that everyone who is born settles down to raise a family. I could deceptively argue that there is NO process of human maturity and growth because after all, a new born baby fresh out of its mother's womb does not marry and raise a family.
The tenor of the entire epistle of First John reveals that the reborn "children of God" WITH the divine sinless SEED of God in them, are in fact at different levels of maturity.
That would include that they are also at different levels of overcoming the sin nature.
Therefore it is no wonder that John encourages them to confess any known sins and to deepen their fellowship with God and one another under the cleansing blood of Christ.
" If we [including the quite mature Apostle John himself] confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness." (v.9)
There is no hint that there is no need and no possibility for the children of God to do so because of the divine birth.
In fact the Apostle warns those who HAVE the divine SEED that they should never lie and foolishly believe that they have no sin or are incapable of sinning at some time.
"If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us." (v.10)
Those who continue to sin have neither seen Him or known Him. They have not been born of God. They are not the children of God.
The confidence of the believers is not in themselves as a source of sinless living.
It is in the divine SEED of Jesus Christ planted in them.
By degrees the normal development is a matter of growing of the influence of His life within the receiver of Him.
The levels of growth of the children is strongly indicated also in John referring to young children, young men, and fathers (1 John 2:12-19)
IE.
"I write to you, fathers, because you know Him who is from the beginning. I write to you, young men, because you have overcome the evil one. I write to you, young children, because you know the Father." (v.13)
Spiritual "young children" and "young men" and "fathers" have ALL received the divine SEED. That puts them ALL in the life relationship with God the Father.
The author of 1 John is explicit and unambiguous about these FACTS.
But you are selective to talk about only the FACTS that endorse your doctrine of hyper-sanctification equals sinless perfection. This is what happens to a deceived person without the honesty to admit to the world that his Jesus Christ is DEAD and GONE and that he does not expect ANY "manifestation" of Christ to come in the future.
When the darkness in you is your light, how great is the darkness, said the Lord.
" ... If then the light that is in you is darkness, how great is the darkness." (Matt. 6:22b)
No amount of folksy "C'mon sonship" will influence this Christian to accept the utter darkness of your expoundings of First John. The "light" in you on this book is pitch black utter darkness.
But should I expect more from one whose Christ is not available, dead, buried, gone and will never again be "manifested" ?
Do you seriously think you'll influence some of us to disbelieve that God has dispensed His divine SEED into our beings ?
You'll argue - "But if you were with God's seed then it would be impossible for you to sin."
To which I would reply, that is right. And that is why i need to deepen my ABIDING in Him.
That is what the divine ANOINTING teaches all the children of God - to abide in Him - more and more, deeper and deeper, more so today than yesterday, on and on until we die or we see the Lord Jesus.
"And now, little children, abide in Him, so that if He is manifested, we may have boldness before Him at His coming." ( 2:28)
"Everyone who abides in HIm does not sin, everyone who sins has not seen Him or known Him." (v.6)
While your cultish theology seeks to exploit this to announce things life -
No Christians exist.
No one is born of God.
No one with God's SEED need ever confess his sins to be cleansed by Christ's blood.
No "children of God" exist as long as believers in Christ occasionally fall into sin.
(And perhaps) - No human being has ever had the SEED of God within them.
Heretical thoughts like this have no place in the Gospel message.
These are the weapons of the opposer of Christ's ministry.
These are the strategies of attacking and destroying the Christian church.
In 1 John 3:1-2, the author of 1 John states his belief that he and at least some of those in his audience are children of God.
He and the audience, he teaches, that there is still the need to confess when they sin.
" If we confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
If we say that we have not sinned we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us." (1:9,10)
There is no hint that John is only talking about their PRE-receiving Christ life experience.
Rather he is speaking also of their lives AFTER they enter into fellowship with each other as brothers and sisters sharing the divine life.
"He who loves his brother abides in the light, and there is no cause of stumbling in him;
He who hates his brother is in the darkness and walks in the darkness and does not know where he is going, because the darkness has blinded his eyes. (vs.9,10)
John is all the while speaking to believers as children of God who are in the brotherhood of the divine life. Verses like this are not about what OUGHT to be. They are about what sadly IS the case sometimes.
Verses like this are certainly not an encouragement to tolerate such a condition.
They are an exhortation not to tolerate them by increasing the ABIDING in Christ as a living REALM and SPHERE.
You are attempting to exploit John's often absolute way of utterance.
In 1 John 3:4-10, the author of 1 John defines what it takes to be a child of God. There he clearly points out that a child of God not only does not continue to sin, he CANNOT continue to sin.
Transformation is the answer to the paradox.
Sanctification is the answer to the paradox.
Learning to ABIDE in Him on deeper and deeper levels is the answer to the paradox.
The implication is that the author of 1 John believes that he and at least some of those in his audience are children of God which he subsequently defines as those who not only do not, but CANNOT continue to sin.
The exhortation is to ...
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There is no use giving me a folksy "C'mon sonship " as if I would expect a heretical system to be reasonable about it.
The bulk of your argument in the post to which I responded hinged on the idea that the author of 1 John was speaking of "habitual" sin which is clearly not true.
No that was not the BULK. SOME attention was given to that. You WISH it was the "bulk" of me pointing out your errors there.
You didn't have the courage to admit that your Jesus is DEAD and GONE. I don't expect you to have the courage to admit that Jesus will be "manifested".
The present day "children of God" await to be manifested whenever He is manifested. Which manifestation is most likely not a part of your system.
" Beloved, now we are children of God .... We know that if He is manifested, we will be like Him ..."
It doesn't teach that the Christians are all together NOT like Him now in some degree.
It doesn't teach that the Christians must WAIT until a future time when they will BE ABLE declare that they are "children of God".
While they await His manifestation and their being MORE like Him, they are presently in the church age "the children of God".
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No amount of folksy "C'mon sonship" can change this.
They cannot be children of God unless they are BORN of God.
And if they are BORN of God then they have God's SEED in them (sinless and all).
You don't believe Christ will be manifested because you don't believe Christ rose from the dead and ascended.
You imply that only Christian of sinless perfection can claim to have the non-sinning SEED of God's divine life. But then that would make any reference to "children of God" untrue. Yet the same Apostle John says that "NOW" he is writing to the children of God.
So he must be writing to those who are BORN of the Father - God.
And so they must have the non-sinning divine SEED of God within them even BEFORE Christ is manifested.
You are attempting to exploit transformation to be a hyper-sinless perfection sanctification of Christians in the church age.
"But those born of God cannot commit sin - PERIOD" you argue.
I agree with that but recognize that transformation is a process.
And sanctification is also a process.
And conformation is also a process.
Your abuse of the passage is akin to someone saying "Everyone who is born goes to settles down to have a family." The twisting of the concept seeks to erase the need for growth and maturity. John is saying what you quote but not teaching what you teach - hyper-sanctification equaling sinless perfection before anyone can claim a life relationship with God the Father.
The real nature of your explanations are a destructive ATTACK against the Gospel utilizing words of the Apostle.
As such the following still stands:
Those who have been born of God do not continue to sin. In fact, they CANNOT continue to sin. They are the children of God.
And I could twist the truth that everyone who is born settles down to raise a family. I could deceptively argue that there is NO process of human maturity and growth because after all, a new born baby fresh out of its mother's womb does not marry and raise a family.
The tenor of the entire epistle of First John reveals that the reborn "children of God" WITH the divine sinless SEED of God in them, are in fact at different levels of maturity.
That would include that they are also at different levels of overcoming the sin nature.
Therefore it is no wonder that John encourages them to confess any known sins and to deepen their fellowship with God and one another under the cleansing blood of Christ.
" If we [including the quite mature Apostle John himself] confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness." (v.9)
There is no hint that there is no need and no possibility for the children of God to do so because of the divine birth.
In fact the Apostle warns those who HAVE the divine SEED that they should never lie and foolishly believe that they have no sin or are incapable of sinning at some time.
"If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us." (v.10)
The confidence of the believers is not in themselves as a source of sinless living.
It is in the divine SEED of Jesus Christ planted in them.
By degrees the normal development is a matter of growing of the influence of His life within the receiver of Him.
The levels of growth of the children is strongly indicated also in John referring to young children, young men, and fathers (1 John 2:12-19)
IE.
"I write to you, fathers, because you know Him who is from the beginning. I write to you, young men, because you have overcome the evil one. I write to you, young children, because you know the Father." (v.13)
Spiritual "young children" and "young men" and "fathers" have ALL received the divine SEED. That puts them ALL in the life relationship with God the Father.
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The author of 1 John is explicit and unambiguous about these FACTS.
But you are selective to talk about only the FACTS that endorse your doctrine of hyper-sanctification equals sinless perfection. This is what happens to a deceived person without the honesty to admit to the world that his Jesus Christ is DEAD and GONE and that he does not expect ANY "manifestation" of Christ to come in the future.
When the darkness in you is your light, how great is the darkness, said the Lord.
" ... If then the light that is in you is darkness, how great is the darkness." (Matt. 6:22b)
No amount of folksy "C'mon sonship" will influence this Christian to accept the utter darkness of your expoundings of First John. The "light" in you on this book is pitch black utter darkness.
But should I expect more from one whose Christ is not available, dead, buried, gone and will never again be "manifested" ?
Do you seriously think you'll influence some of us to disbelieve that God has dispensed His divine SEED into our beings ?
You'll argue - "But if you were with God's seed then it would be impossible for you to sin."
To which I would reply, that is right. And that is why i need to deepen my ABIDING in Him.
That is what the divine ANOINTING teaches all the children of God - to abide in Him - more and more, deeper and deeper, more so today than yesterday, on and on until we die or we see the Lord Jesus.
"And now, little children, abide in Him, so that if He is manifested, we may have boldness before him at His coming." ( 2:28)
"Everyone who abides in Him does not sin, everyone who sins has not seen Him or known Him." (v.6)
While your cultish theology seeks to exploit this to announce things life -
No Christians exist.
No one is born of God.
No one with God's SEED need ever confess his sins to be cleansed by Christ's blood.
No "children of God" exist as long as believers in Christ occasionally fall into sin.
(And perhaps) - No human being has ever had the SEED of God within them.
Heretical thoughts like this have no place in the Gospel message.
These are the weapons of the opposer of Christ's ministry.
These are the strategies of attacking and destroying the Christian church.
In 1 John 3:1-2, the author of 1 John states his belief that he and at least some of those in his audience are children of God.
He and the audience he teaches that there is still the need to confess when they sin.
" If we confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
If we say taht we have not sinned we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us." (1:9,10)
There is no hint that John is only talking about their PRE-receiving Christ life experience.
Rather he is speaking also of their lives AFTER they enter into fellowship with each other as brothers and sisters sharing the divine life.
"He who loves his brother abides in the light, and there is no cause of stumbling in him;
He who hates his brother is in the darkness and walks in the darkness and does not know where he is going, because the darkness has blinded his eyes. (vs.9,10)
John is all the while speaking to believers as children of God who are in the brotherhood of the divine life. Verses like this are not about what OUGHT to be. They are about what sadly IS the case sometimes.
Verses like this are certainly not an encouragement to tolerate such a condition.
They are an exhortation not to tolerate them by increasing the ABIDING in Christ as a living REALM and SPHERE.
You are attempting to exploit John's often absolute way of utterance.
In 1 John 3:4-10, the author of 1 John defines what it takes to be a child of God. There he clearly points out that a child of God not only does not continue to sin, he CANNOT continue to sin.
Transformation is the answer to the paradox.
Sanctification is the answer to the paradox.
Learning to ABIDE in Him on deeper and deeper levels is the answer to the paradox.
The implication is that the author of 1 John believes that he and at least some of those in his audience are children of God which he subsequently defines as those who not only do not, but CANNOT continue to sin.
The exhortation is to ABIDE in Him who is sinless.
This is an increasing matter, a deepening matter, a growing matter, a maturing matter.
This is a matter which he expects the children of God at different stages to give attention to UNTIL He is manifested.
John tells the whole audience, at whatever level of growth in divine life they are, to abide in what they heard from the beginning. And if they do they ABIDE in the Father and in the Son. So they have been organically related to the divine SEED from the moment they heard and believed the Gospel.
"As for you, that which you heard from the beginning, let it abide in you. If that which you heard from the beginning abides in you, you also will abide in the Son and in the Father." (2:24)
Explain HOW anyone can abide in the Son and in the Father and NOT have the divine SEED implanted in them.
25 Jun 17
Originally posted by sonshipAre you like Christ now "in some degree"?
It doesn't teach that the Christians are all together NOT like Him now in some degree.
It doesn't teach that the Christians must WAIT until a future time when they will BE ABLE declare that they are "children of God".
