Spirituality
05 Jun 09
05 Jun 09
This is a question I asked my pastor friend. Why eternity in hell? Is any crime/sin ever committed = to eternity in hell? I believe in punishment for crimes but I'm curious to why eternity compared to finite sins? Even the most vile crime would seem less in light of eternal punishment. I'm not trying to be smug toward God or question him but thats a huge punishment for not knowing or accepting Christ or sinning or whatever.
Manny
05 Jun 09
Originally posted by menace71Agreed!it seems totally ridiculous
This is a question I asked my pastor friend. Why eternity in hell? Is any crime/sin ever committed = to eternity in hell? I believe in punishment for crimes but I'm curious to why eternity compared to finite sins? Even the most vile crime would seem less in light of eternal punishment. I'm not trying to be smug toward God or question him but thats a huge punishment for not knowing or accepting Christ or sinning or whatever.
Manny
05 Jun 09
Originally posted by menace71Why? What purpose does it serve?
I believe in punishment for crimes
I believe human society mostly uses punishment:
1. to discourage repeat offenses by the perpetrator.
2. to discourage similar offenses by other observers.
3. to satisfy our desire for revenge an evolved tendency that humans (and other animals) have in order to achieve 1 and 2.
We also have other systems that are not inherently punishments such as incarceration and rehabilitation. Incarceration seeks to physically prevent a perpetrator from committing further crimes.
I believe our sense of compassion should lead us to not punish where 1 and 2 are not being achieved - and our criminal justice systems often recognize that sentiment.
I suppose that hell achieves 1 and 2 because we (supposedly) know about it in advance.
05 Jun 09
I am not convinced that torment in hell is eternal. There is a ton of reference to life vs. death as Jesus spoke about those with or without love for and faith in God. Think of the most common verse quoted from the New Testament:
John 3:16—"For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life."
Obviously, if one perishes, they cannot at the same time be tormented... they are annihilated and their torment is over.
So what about the verses that speak of eternal punishment? They could mean that the punishment... this "death" that Jesus spoke of with regularity, or annihilation, is eternal because afterall, when you are destroyed, you are eternally without life.
05 Jun 09
Originally posted by sumydidYes, its entirely true, the dead are conscious of nothing, and cannot be tormented.
I am not convinced that torment in hell is eternal. There is a ton of reference to life vs. death as Jesus spoke about those with or without love for and faith in God. Think of the most common verse quoted from the New Testament:
John 3:16—"For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but ...[text shortened]... on[/i], is eternal because afterall, when you are destroyed, you are eternally without life.
05 Jun 09
3 edits
Originally posted by menace71=================================
This is a question I asked my pastor friend. Why eternity in hell? Is any crime/sin ever committed = to eternity in hell? I believe in punishment for crimes but I'm curious to why eternity compared to finite sins? Even the most vile crime would seem less in light of eternal punishment. I'm not trying to be smug toward God or question him but thats a huge punishment for not knowing or accepting Christ or sinning or whatever.
Manny
Why eternity in hell? Is any crime/sin ever committed = to eternity in hell? I believe in punishment for crimes but I'm curious to why eternity compared to finite sins? Even the most vile crime would seem less in light of eternal punishment. I'm not trying to be smug toward God or question him but thats a huge punishment for not knowing or accepting Christ or sinning or whatever.
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The question posed is not easy to answer. However ---
If you were to gather all the thieves in the world and ask them to arrive at a just punishment for thieves, they have a vested self interest. They would be likely to make the penalty light. Perhaps they would all vote that there should be no punishment. After all, they are all thieves.
If all the rapists were to vote on what kind of punishment the law should prescribe for rape, perhaps they would vote "No Penalty". Or they may vote for a light penalty, perhaps "To be Sent to Bed with No Dinner".
Can human beings be entrusted with determining the appropriate punishment for rebellion against God ? We have a vested interest in saving our own skin. For rejection of God's salvation, we cannot be trusted with determining what should be the appropriate punishment met out by God.
God is the one to determine what the penalty should be for sin and for rejection of His salvation.
05 Jun 09
Originally posted by menace71Hell is the most savage, and insane concept ever to supposively come from God. What a non likeable God that would be don't you think ? The cruel jail keeper does not fit the definition of a God. The Hell idea should be scrapped with many other crazy, and cruel idea's that we find in religion.
This is a question I asked my pastor friend. Why eternity in hell? Is any crime/sin ever committed = to eternity in hell? I believe in punishment for crimes but I'm curious to why eternity compared to finite sins? Even the most vile crime would seem less in light of eternal punishment. I'm not trying to be smug toward God or question him but thats a huge punishment for not knowing or accepting Christ or sinning or whatever.
Manny
05 Jun 09
2 edits
Originally posted by buckkyEternal punishment, after years of consideration of the Bible, makes sense.
Hell is the most savage, and insane concept ever to supposively come from God. What a non likeable God that would be don't you think ? The cruel jail keeper does not fit the definition of a God. The Hell idea should be scrapped with many other crazy, and cruel idea's that we find in religion.
God is the ultimate authority. We have to realize that we cannot rebel against Him forever and win. We must lose.
This is His responsibility. What we should give our attention to is the great degree God has gone to to save us from that fate.
I think that is what you should meditate upon. What has God done that you might not be eternally punished?
Besides, if God is to reign over all the universe and you do not want to be under His reign, then where else are you to go? God has to assign a place for you too. That place must be a place totally devoid of blessing. It must be hell there.
05 Jun 09
I'm a liberal Muslim, so I believe that each person sentenced to Hell is only sentenced for six weeks, or something. After that they have to go prove that they've changed and that they feel sorry for what they've done. If they don't, they get another six-week term. If they do, they can go to Heaven.
By the way, Revelations was written by a kind of crazy guy after the rest of the Bible.
05 Jun 09
Originally posted by menace71No one (not Hitler, Stalin or even your eighth grade civics teacher) goes to hell for sin. All sin has been paid for at the cross with the work performed by the Lord Jesus Christ.
This is a question I asked my pastor friend. Why eternity in hell? Is any crime/sin ever committed = to eternity in hell? I believe in punishment for crimes but I'm curious to why eternity compared to finite sins? Even the most vile crime would seem less in light of eternal punishment. I'm not trying to be smug toward God or question him but thats a huge punishment for not knowing or accepting Christ or sinning or whatever.
Manny
The default position for all people born on this planet is that of eternal salvation. Only those who--- when given the opportunity--- willfully go through life in rejection of the gift of salvation end up in hell (which was originally created for fallen angels, not man).
05 Jun 09
Originally posted by jaywillIf someone came up tp me with a gun, and said I'm going to shoot you unless you worship me. This person is giving me the option of not being shot if I will only go along with his plan. That's the situation that we have in the Bible pertaining to Heaven or Hell. Hell is the cocked gun. Something about this seems less than Godly.
Eternal punishment, after years of consideration of the Bible, makes sense.
God is the ultimate authority. We have to realize that we cannot rebel against Him forever and win. We must lose.
This is His responsibility. What we should give our attention to is the great degree God has gone to to save us from that fate.
I think that is what you ...[text shortened]... lace for you too. That place must be a place totally devoid of blessing. It must be hell there.
05 Jun 09
Originally posted by FreakyKBHHave you ever wondered how the Angel's fell ? Why would they choose to do the wrong thing ? They should of known better don't you think ?
No one (not Hitler, Stalin or even your eighth grade civics teacher) goes to hell for sin. All sin has been paid for at the cross with the work performed by the Lord Jesus Christ.
The default position for all people born on this planet is that of eternal salvation. Only those who--- when given the opportunity--- willfully go through life in rejection ...[text shortened]... the gift of salvation end up in hell (which was originally created for fallen angels, not man).
05 Jun 09
Originally posted by buckkyThe angels never gave me much of a problem: they were swayed by the most persuasive creature ever made. Voice like a church pipe organ, charismatic as the sun, beauty beyond comparison--- kind of man woman would have wanted to be with and guys would want to be like.
Have you ever wondered how the Angel's fell ? Why would they choose to do the wrong thing ? They should of known better don't you think ?
The problem I did have was how could Lucifer himself have made such a boneheaded decision. He was the guard closest to God's glory, with the most access to seeing Him as He is. Stopping there, one might think the issue was with God: somehow this magnificent creature detected some weakness in the Creator no one else could see.
However, we find that the reason Lucifer became Satan was because of pride, not some unknown or undisclosed knowledge which only he could have discovered. Instead of seeing things as they are, i.e., according to reality, he became blinded by his "own" beauty, his "own" magnificence.
He still is.
06 Jun 09
Originally posted by scherzoWhy do you say he was crazy? The same man wrote the Gospel of John, was John crazy?
I'm a liberal Muslim, so I believe that each person sentenced to Hell is only sentenced for six weeks, or something. After that they have to go prove that they've changed and that they feel sorry for what they've done. If they don't, they get another six-week term. If they do, they can go to Heaven.
By the way, Revelations was written by a kind of crazy guy after the rest of the Bible.