06 Jun 06
Originally posted by UmbrageOfSnowBut HE did ordain a universe where busses would exist, what with all his omnipotence and omniscience. So, they count too.
Well according to the bible, before the time of Noah people used to live much, much longer than they do today. If we trust the bible, that would make God responsible for old age. So I think old age ought to be counted, but maybe not busses I guess.
06 Jun 06
Originally posted by UmbrageOfSnowdefinately the christian god. Let's face it, more people are alive today than have ever lived before (in total!!!), therefore more will die. If god is outside of time, they already have died in fact.
Good point, we're back to: If there is a God, he/she/it is ultimately responsible for all deaths ever.
I think we should make this a more interesting debate. If we assume for a minute that all the Greek gods are real, who has the highest kill count there?
07 Jun 06
Originally posted by telerionLol, that's the general idea.
. . . and released so much heat when it converted to rain that it melted the earth and the Ark. Then God went into action.
He cooled the earth and magicked away all the extra water. He brought Noah and the Ark back into existence inside a time vacuum such that they felt they had traveled for one year. Then he instantiated all the vegetation for the Ar ...[text shortened]... shield had been removed.
Supernatural Omnipotent Omniscient Manipulators. Gotta love 'em.
07 Jun 06
Originally posted by PhlabibitMillions. In the name of God. (Of course God does not actually exist).
Anyone have a ballpark figure?
P-
GWB: "God told me to invade Iraq"
Al-Zarqawi (Whilst decapitating Western hostage): "Alla Akhbar" (God is great)
I am still deciding who is the most corrupt and odious between them.
07 Jun 06
Originally posted by PhlabibitBut you got to realize that life here on earth is only phase one. But I guess if your an atheist, and don't believe in an afterlife, dieing is such a terrible thing, so blaming God (or not believing in one) is the right thing to do
Anyone have a ballpark figure?
P-
07 Jun 06
Originally posted by HalitoseGood point. Assuming the Biblical account of free will is accurate, should man's fall then be viewed as suicide? Once you sin you die. It is then only a matter of how and when.
What difference would killing 1 or 100,000,000 make? I don't think evil should be measured by quantity. Would less make it any more acceptable -- or notch God lower on the scale of villains? Methinks the question should rather be rephrased to question whether a creator may destroy his/her/its creation.
07 Jun 06
Originally posted by whodeySuicide? Why not murder? I didn't eat the apple, after all, and yet I am to die for it (if it were true, which, of course, it isn't). Anyway, God created Adam and Eve with perfect foreknowledge that they would do it. They may have thought they had free will, but like us all (if your god exists) they were merely puppets with a pre-ordained task.
Good point. Assuming the Biblical account of free will is accurate, should man's fall then be viewed as suicide? Once you sin you die. It is then only a matter of how and when.
07 Jun 06
Originally posted by flyUnityDo you check both ways before crossing a busy street? Would you practice balance beam on a balconey railing 300ft above the ground without safety equipment? Would you swim playfully with a great white shark?
But you got to realize that life here on earth is only phase one. But I guess if your an atheist, and don't believe in an afterlife, dieing is such a terrible thing, so blaming God (or not believing in one) is the right thing to do
Most people who believe in an afterlife are just as frightened of death.
07 Jun 06
Originally posted by telerionFear of the unknown is for the most part ubiquitous to mankind -- so is self-preservation. This doesn't negate an afterlife, does it?
Do you check both ways before crossing a busy street? Would you practice balance beam on a balconey railing 300ft above the ground without safety equipment? Would you swim playfully with a great white shark?
Most people who believe in an afterlife are just as frightened of death.
07 Jun 06
Originally posted by whodeyIn a sense; I consider it an ongoing decision that every individual makes for themselves.
Good point. Assuming the Biblical account of free will is accurate, should man's fall then be viewed as suicide? Once you sin you die. It is then only a matter of how and when.
07 Jun 06
Originally posted by telerionI'm quite familiar with the young-earth rebuttals, so here goes my self-important attempt:
. . . and released so much heat when it converted to rain that it melted the earth and the Ark. Then God went into action.
He cooled the earth and magicked away all the extra water. He brought Noah and the Ark back into existence inside a time vacuum such that they felt they had traveled for one year. Then he instantiated all the vegetation for the Ar ...[text shortened]... shield had been removed.
Supernatural Omnipotent Omniscient Manipulators. Gotta love 'em.
. . . and released so much heat when it converted to rain that it melted the earth and the Ark.
Hmmm... Condensation is exothermic. There would have been a bit of heat caused. Enter "Giant Ice-Meteors" (which triggered the collapse in the first place) who cause a suppression of the temperature, and an ice age.
magicked away all the extra water.
Immense tectonic movement caused tipping of the plates and the runoff formed what currently covers 70% of the surface -- the oceans.
He brought Noah and the Ark back into existence inside a time vacuum such that they felt they had traveled for one year.
Ha.
Then he instantiated all the vegetation for the Ark animals to consume.
Vegetation would have survived the thorough dowsing in seed form.
He made the carnivores not hungry until the herbivores could recuperate their numbers.
Bunnies reproduce faster than lions. QED!
He altered the gene pool so as to disguise the enormous genetic bottleneck.
And you think the theory of evolution which posits a single common ancestor doesn't have the same problem!?!
He made all geological indicators look like no great flood had ever occurred.
The Grand Canyon; fossils of seabed creatures on the upper reaches of the Himalayas. I forget all the rest. There was an entire book devoted to it in the 70's IIRC.
He added some pyramids, and even cheated by throwing a few people in east asia.
The stones of the Great Pyramid of Giza weigh up to 80 tonnes each -- not quite rubber duckies that float away when a little water comes past. It's anyway estimated to have been constructed around 2560 BC -- a couple millennia after the proposed flood. The East Asians were deposited by UFO’s. Alternatively, they could have moved there while most of the water was trapped as ice at the poles.