01 Apr 15
1 edit
Hello, old friends:
After all these years, I get to explore Judaism within a synagogue community.
Some of you might remember years ago, when I was pretty steeped in the Jewish strain of nondualism—doing some midrash (a Jewish form of exegesis), etc. At that time, I had no practical access to a community. Unfortunately with our move from the country to the town—and from a house to a small apartment—I had to get rid of a lot of books, including too many of my Judaic resources. Also, I had laid off the Hebrew for a couple of years, and lost a lot (of what little I had). Most of the prayers are done in Hebrew, though the siddur (prayer book) has some English translation that allows me to follow along—but I need to start working on my Hebrew.
The congregation is mixed Reform and Conservative; my natural place would be in a particular liberal wing of Reform. The rabbi, and everyone else, has been very welcoming, allowing me to explore as broadly or as deeply as I wish, without commitment. I go to erev shabbat (Sabbath evening) and Shabbat services, and Talmud study on Sunday mornings. I was chatting with a woman after Talmud class who turns out to also be a rabbi (though not the rabbi of that congregation), and described to her what I was doing and my background, and that I am just exploring this religious/spiritual paradigm to see how far it fits—and she said: “Well, this is a place where you will be safe to do that.” So far, that seems to be very much the case.
So: Lots of Hebrew study, learning the prayer services, reading Torah and a bit of Talmud—learning by a lot by osmosis, taking my time because it’s going to take time—and trying to maintain a “meditative space” in all that.
Shalom. (Be well.)
EDIT: "Best" is best for you, what contributes to well-being (shalom) and a whole, rich life--philosophically, aesthetically, spiritually (however one defines that). That includes "no religion" as well.
01 Apr 15
Originally posted by vistesdHi vistesd,
Hello, old friends:
After all these years, I get to explore Judaism within a synagogue community.
Some of you might remember years ago, when I was pretty steeped in the Jewish strain of nondualism—doing some midrash (a Jewish form of exegesis), etc. At that time, I had no practical access to a community. Unfortunately with our move from the co ...[text shortened]... ly, aesthetically, spiritually (however one defines that). That includes "no religion" as well.
What a refreshing post!
My own alternative viewpoint (if I were to change) would be Judaism, because of its rich culture. As a child, I often envied my Jewish friends for their rituals and their strong sense of community, far more than the Christan circles in which we moved. They have a heritage to be proud of, and a belief that actually makes sense.
To be the Chosen Race! Wow!
Originally posted by CalJustHi, CalJust. Thanks.
Hi vistesd,
What a refreshing post!
My own alternative viewpoint (if I were to change) would be Judaism, because of its rich culture. As a child, I often envied my Jewish friends for their rituals and their strong sense of community, far more than the Christan circles in which we moved. They have a heritage to be proud of, and a belief that actually makes sense.
To be the Chosen Race! Wow!
“Chosen Race”? I question whether any ancient people thought in terms of any modern notions of race—as opposed to, say, tribe, or, at most, those who speak a common language. A lot of groups referred to themselves as “the people”—as opposed to whatever term they used for others, outsiders. Similarly, the term used in the the Torah is “people” (Hebrew: am).
The first passage in which the word “people” and the word” chosen” appear together is Deuteronomy 7:6, which is of late composition compared to the other books of the Torah (1st five books). EDIT: Although there is a reference in Genesis 17 as well. There is no indication that the Israelites are chosen for any superiority—including moral superiority. Later rabbis may well have gone there (especially during periods of persecution), and I can likely find some Talmudic references—but the Talmud is a record of rabbinical debate (for the purpose of providing a springboard for future debate), not a source of strict doctrinal statements.
I admit that my interest in Judaism stemmed originally from the discovery—pretty late in life—of my Jewish heritage, long kept locked in a closet of prejudice. But, if one wants to use the metaphor of “chosen-ness”, then I would suggest there is no the chosen people, but that all people are chosen—some in this way, some in that; and I would allow myself to be informed by each people’s founding myths.
01 Apr 15
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EDIT to above: Here is a probably pretty standard discussion of Jewish understandings of chosenness--
http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Judaism/chosen_people.html
However, I might fall outside the "standard"--which is allowable in Judaism (except, perhaps, for the the hyper-"orthodox" haredim).
01 Apr 15
Originally posted by vistesdOf course, I used the words "Chosen race" colloquially. Like Fiddler on the Roof said to g-d: Why not choose someone else for a change?!
“Chosen [b]Race”? I question whether any ancient people thought in terms of any modern notions of race—as opposed to, say, tribe, or, at most, those who speak a common language.
Although there is a reference in Genesis 17 as well. There is no indication that the Israelites are chosen for any superiority—including moral superiority.[/b]
Your second point: again, true of course. Exactly the opposite is the case. When you read Ezekiel, and especially Hosea, you hear g-d saying that it was not for any special virtue that Israel was chosen, but in spite of them! "I found you in your nakedness" he said.
So the idea of having been special is deeply ingrained in the psyche, I would like to think, and that must be very precious to any community, or peoples, as you suggest.
The Aborigines in Oz have a similar sense of chosenness, and destiny, as, I am sure, several other cultures. But that would be one of the aspects that would attract me to Judaism.
01 Apr 15
2 edits
Originally posted by CalJustSorry--I was sure that's the way you were using it, and should have said so. But I have been involved in in some pretty fraught discussions on that question--and it is a charge that seems to be often leveled against Jews (others as well, I'm sure).
Of course, I used the words "Chosen race" colloquially. Like Fiddler on the Roof said to g-d: Why not choose someone else for a change?!
Your second point: again, true of course. Exactly the opposite is the case. When you read Ezekiel, and especially Hosea, you hear g-d saying that it was not for any special virtue that Israel was chosen, but in spite of ...[text shortened]... , several other cultures. But that would be one of the aspects that would attract me to Judaism.
Again, sorry for the implication that you meant anything more than, as you put it, a colloquial usage. My bad.
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EDIT: It seems to be part of my psyche as well. If that's just some psychological remnant, perhaps related to survival and evolution of the species, that's okay. I will just take it as part of my personal (aesthetic) mythology, without further defense. 🙂
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01 Apr 15
Originally posted by CalJustMy Jewish friends say, not fully tongue in cheek, that they sometimes wish they weren't God's chosen, considering the ordeals He puts them through.
Hi vistesd,
What a refreshing post!
My own alternative viewpoint (if I were to change) would be Judaism, because of its rich culture. As a child, I often envied my Jewish friends for their rituals and their strong sense of community, far more than the Christan circles in which we moved. They have a heritage to be proud of, and a belief that actually makes sense.
To be the Chosen Race! Wow!
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01 Apr 15
Originally posted by vistesd" It seems to be part of my psyche as well."
Sorry--I was sure that's the way you were using it, and should have said so. But I have been involved in in some pretty fraught discussions on that question--and it is a charge that seems to be often leveled against Jews (others as well, I'm sure).
Again, sorry for the implication that you meant anything more than, as you put it, a colloquial usage. My b ...[text shortened]... I will just take it as part of my personal (aesthetic) mythology, without further defense. 🙂
With all due respect, isn't being mischaracterized and oppressed an understandable element of Jewish identity? Isn't a sense of caution part of it? I explain some of my Jewish friends' behavior that way, like having a post oOffice box as their given address and not liking "fast passes" that create a record of their toll bridge locations and now, God help them, cell phones knowing where they are all the time.
Years ago I told one of my Jewish friends I'd heard a definition of "Jew": It is a person for whom what it means to be a Jew is a lifelong question. He liked it.
01 Apr 15
Originally posted by JS357I understand that thought, BUT, and it is something to think about. No
My Jewish friends say, not fully tongue in cheek, that they sometimes wish they weren't God's chosen, considering the ordeals He puts them through.
matter what we all go through things common to man, we can either do
that on our own, or with God. We will not avoid trouble, or blessings by
either seeking or denying God. God is the safest place to be on earth
mainly due to the world, the flesh, and the devil will try to ruin you no
matter what or where you go and put your faith in.
01 Apr 15
1 edit
Originally posted by JS357Thank you. I like that answer as well, very much.
Years ago I told one of my Jewish friends I'd heard a definition of "Jew": It is a person for whom what it means to be a Jew is a lifelong question. He liked it.
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EDIT: Maybe that's what is embedded in my psyche? (Tongue very much in cheek, there!) 😉
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01 Apr 15
1 edit
Originally posted by KellyJayI'm pleased that you have found something that makes you feel complete.
Yes, but once I was saved I have not bothered to look for something I
already have.
Hypothetically, if you had been born on some remote island and had no knowledge of any of the major religions (including Christianity) do you think you would still have found your way to the same God? (Genuine question).
01 Apr 15
Originally posted by Ghost of a DukeKJ, if you answer that, my related question would be if you had chosen Christianity if you were born in an overwhelmingly Bhuddist or Muslim country?
Hypothetically, if you had been born on some remote island and had no knowledge of any of the major religions (including Christianity) do you think you would still have found your way to the same God? (Genuine question).
01 Apr 15
Originally posted by Ghost of a DukeI believe God reaches for us all, and He uses us to do that. So if all we are
I'm pleased that you have found something that makes you feel complete.
Hypothetically, if you had been born on some remote island and had no knowledge of any of the major religions (including Christianity) do you think you would still have found your way to the same God? (Genuine question).
doing is saying "what if" I'll say someone would come.