Originally posted by RJHindsYes, Jesus spoke of a New Covenant. However it was not the same as the New Covenant described in Jeremiah 31.
[b]And in the same way He took the cup after they had eaten, saying, "This cup which is poured out for you is the new covenant in My blood.
(Luke 22:20 NASB)
The new covenant is God's pledge to forgive the sins of his people and to put his laws within us and to write them on our hearts, and to be our God and to make us his people. All Christians are ...[text shortened]... the New Covenant and are not His people. These unbelievers have their part in the Lake of Fire.[/b]
Read what Jeremiah 31 actually says:
33“But this is the covenant which I will make with the house of Israel after those days,” declares the LORD, “I will put My law within them and on their heart I will write it; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people. 34“They will not teach again, each man his neighbor and each man his brother, saying, ‘Know the LORD,’ for they will all know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them,” declares the LORD, “for I will forgive their iniquity, and their sin I will remember no more.”
Clearly God is speaking of those from the house of Israel. Clearly God's Law will be written on the hearts of EVERY MAN from the house of Israel. Clearly no man from the house of Israel will say "Know the Lord" because the will ALL know him. Clearly this has yet to come to pass.
The truth will make you free.
Originally posted by ThinkOfOneShow me in the scriptures more than one "new covenant" please. Prove that the new covenant spoken of in Jeremiah isn't the same as the one refered to by Jesus.
Yes, Jesus spoke of a New Covenant. However it was not the same as the New Covenant described in Jeremiah 31.
Read what Jeremiah 31 actually says:
33“But this is the covenant which I will make with the house of Israel after those days,” declares the LORD, “I will put My law within them and on their heart I will write it; and I will be their God, and t ...[text shortened]... se the will ALL know him. Clearly this has yet to come to pass.
The truth will make you free.
"Read what Jeremiah 31 actually says:"
Seriously? What Jeremiah actually says? Were you there when Jeremiah said that? Did you record it? Do you have the original autograph? Just how sure are you that the quote you provided is inerrant? Do you know beyond a shadow of a doubt that the English translation you are using is 100% reliable?
"The truth will make you free."
How platitudinous of you!
Originally posted by josephwProve that the new covenant spoken of in Jeremiah isn't the same as the one refered to by Jesus.
Show me in the scriptures more than one "new covenant" please. Prove that the new covenant spoken of in Jeremiah isn't the same as the one refered to by Jesus.
[b]"Read what Jeremiah 31 actually says:"
Seriously? What Jeremiah actually says? Were you there when Jeremiah said that? Did you record it? Do you have the original autograph? Just h ...[text shortened]... e using is 100% reliable?
"The truth will make you free."
How platitudinous of you![/b]
I already showed that the new covenant described in Jeremiah has yet to come to pass. If you disagree, then show where I erred instead of just pitching a hissy fit.
Seriously? What Jeremiah actually says?
Try reading what I actually said:
"Read what Jeremiah 31 actually says"
How platitudinous of you!
Just quoted Jesus. If you were familiar with His teachings, you'd know this.
Never ceases to amaze me how many Christians have such a strong aversion to the truth.
Originally posted by ThinkOfOneWhat you quoted is the final result of the New Covenant that was instituted (set in motion or establish) in 31 A.D. This New Covenant still has to be fulfilled by Jesus just like He fulfilled the Old Covenant established in the time of Moses.
[b]Prove that the new covenant spoken of in Jeremiah isn't the same as the one refered to by Jesus.
I already showed that the new covenant described in Jeremiah has yet to come to pass. If you disagree, then show where I erred instead of just pitching a hissy fit.
Seriously? What Jeremiah actually says?
Try reading what I actually sa ...[text shortened]... this.
Never ceases to amaze me how many Christians have such a strong aversion to the truth.[/b]
It is Jesus who said that it is "the New Covenant" so I am not going to argue with Him.
And in the same way He took the cup after they had eaten, saying, "This cup which is poured out for you is the new covenant in My blood.
(Luke 22:20 NASB)
Look at what the writer of Hebrews says about the old and new covenants:
Now even the first covenant had regulations of divine worship and the earthly sanctuary. For there was a tabernacle prepared, the outer one, in which were the lampstand and the table and the sacred bread; this is called the holy place. Behind the second veil there was a tabernacle which is called the Holy of Holies, having a golden altar of incense and the ark of the covenant covered on all sides with gold, in which was a golden jar holding the manna, and Aaron’s rod which budded, and the tables of the covenant; and above it were the cherubim of glory overshadowing the mercy seat; but of these things we cannot now speak in detail.
Now when these things have been so prepared, the priests are continually entering the outer tabernacle performing the divine worship, but into the second, only the high priest enters once a year, not without taking blood, which he offers for himself and for the sins of the people committed in ignorance. The Holy Spirit is signifying this, that the way into the holy place has not yet been disclosed while the outer tabernacle is still standing, which is a symbol for the present time. Accordingly both gifts and sacrifices are offered which cannot make the worshiper perfect in conscience, since they relate only to food and drink and various washings, regulations for the body imposed until a time of reformation.
THAT WAS THE OLD COVENANT REGULATIONS. BELOW HE COMPARES HOW CHRIST COMPLETED THE OLD COVENANT REGULATIONS IN ORDER TO ESTABLISH A NEW COVENANT.
But when Christ appeared as a high priest of the good things to come, He entered through the greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this creation; and not through the blood of goats and calves, but through His own blood, He entered the holy place once for all, having obtained eternal redemption. For if the blood of goats and bulls and the ashes of a heifer sprinkling those who have been defiled sanctify for the cleansing of the flesh, how much more will the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered Himself without blemish to God, cleanse your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?
For this reason He is the mediator of a new covenant, so that, since a death has taken place for the redemption of the transgressions that were committed under the first covenant, those who have been called may receive the promise of the eternal inheritance. For where a covenant is, there must of necessity be the death of the one who made it. For a covenant is valid only when men are dead, for it is never in force while the one who made it lives. Therefore even the first covenant was not inaugurated without blood. For when every commandment had been spoken by Moses to all the people according to the Law, he took the blood of the calves and the goats, with water and scarlet wool and hyssop, and sprinkled both the book itself and all the people, saying, “This is the blood of the covenant which God commanded you.” And in the same way he sprinkled both the tabernacle and all the vessels of the ministry with the blood. And according to the Law, one may almost say, all things are cleansed with blood, and without shedding of blood there is no forgiveness.
Therefore it was necessary for the copies of the things in the heavens to be cleansed with these, but the heavenly things themselves with better sacrifices than these. For Christ did not enter a holy place made with hands, a mere copy of the true one, but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us; nor was it that He would offer Himself often, as the high priest enters the holy place year by year with blood that is not his own. Otherwise, He would have needed to suffer often since the foundation of the world; but now once at the consummation of the ages He has been manifested to put away sin by the sacrifice of Himself. And inasmuch as it is appointed for men to die once and after this comes judgment, so Christ also, having been offered once to bear the sins of many, will appear a second time for salvation without reference to sin, to those who eagerly await Him.
(Hebrews 9:1-28 NASB)
Originally posted by RJHindsOnce again:
What you quoted is the final result of the New Covenant that was instituted (set in motion or establish) in 31 A.D. This New Covenant still has to be fulfilled by Jesus just like He fulfilled the Old Covenant established in the time of Moses.
It is Jesus who said that it is "the New Covenant" so I am not going to argue with Him.
[b]And in the same way ...[text shortened]... "This cup which is poured out for you is the new covenant in My blood.
(Luke 22:20 NASB)[/b]
Yes, Jesus spoke of a New Covenant. However it was not the same as the New Covenant described in Jeremiah 31.
Read what Jeremiah 31 actually says:
33“But this is the covenant which I will make with the house of Israel after those days,” declares the LORD, “I will put My law within them and on their heart I will write it; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people. 34“They will not teach again, each man his neighbor and each man his brother, saying, ‘Know the LORD,’ for they will all know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them,” declares the LORD, “for I will forgive their iniquity, and their sin I will remember no more.”
Clearly God is speaking of those from the house of Israel. Clearly God's Law will be written on the hearts of EVERY MAN from the house of Israel. Clearly no man from the house of Israel will say "Know the Lord" because the will ALL know him. Clearly this has yet to come to pass.
The truth will make you free.
Why do you continue to refuse to address the above?
Originally posted by ThinkOfOneIt looks like the Writer of Hebrews disagrees with you for he previously quotes Jeremiah in Chapter 8 of Hebrews saying...
Once again:Yes, Jesus spoke of a New Covenant. However it was not the same as the New Covenant described in Jeremiah 31.
Read what Jeremiah 31 actually says:
33“But this is the covenant which I will make with the house of Israel after those days,” declares the LORD, “I will put My law within them and on their heart I will write it; and I wi ...[text shortened]...
The truth will make you free.
Why do you continue to refuse to address the above?
Now the main point in what has been said is this: we have such a high priest, who has taken His seat at the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens, a minister in the sanctuary and in the true tabernacle, which the Lord pitched, not man. For every high priest is appointed to offer both gifts and sacrifices; so it is necessary that this high priest also have something to offer. Now if He were on earth, He would not be a priest at all, since there are those who offer the gifts according to the Law; who serve a copy and shadow of the heavenly things, just as Moses was warned by God when he was about to erect the tabernacle; for, “See,” He says, “that you make all things according to the pattern which was shown you on the mountain.” But now He has obtained a more excellent ministry, by as much as He is also the mediator of a better covenant, which has been enacted on better promises.
For if that first covenant had been faultless, there would have been no occasion sought for a second. For finding fault with them, He says,
“Behold, days are coming, says the Lord,
When I will effect a new covenant
With the house of Israel and with the house of Judah;
Not like the covenant which I made with their fathers
On the day when I took them by the hand
To lead them out of the land of Egypt;
For they did not continue in My covenant,
And I did not care for them, says the Lord.
“For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel
After those days, says the Lord:
I will put My laws into their minds,
And I will write them on their hearts.
And I will be their God,
And they shall be My people.
“And they shall not teach everyone his fellow citizen,
And everyone his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’
For all will know Me,
From the least to the greatest of them.
“For I will be merciful to their iniquities,
And I will remember their sins no more.”
When He said, “A new covenant,” He has made the first obsolete. But whatever is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to disappear.
There is no need that the covenant promises to be fulfilled immediately upon making a covenant because those promises are always in the future. You have the same mindset as the Jews in Judaism in thinking that since Jesus did not conquer the Romans and set up His kingdom on earth immediately, then He could not be the promised Messiah and therefore the Jews still look for another.