30 Aug 09
Originally posted by ThinkOfOneGood points. If one just acts out these qualities but it's really not in your heart then you may have a problem... The heart is what God reads.
I'm still not sure what you are finding difficult to understand, but I'll try this. It isn't about acting truthful, loving, compassionate, just, etc. It's about being truthful, loving, compassionate, just, etc. Here's an example that might help you understand the distinction. There are many people who, under most circumstances, would not mur ...[text shortened]... have no desire to murder anyone and there is no situation that would incite such a desire.
30 Aug 09
Originally posted by galveston75From other posts of yours, I gather that ultimately you don't agree with these points. I gather that you believe it is not possible for anyone to be righteous. That at best, someone can only have a strong desire to be righteous and therefore can only act righteous. Ultimately such a person is acting the part. Have I misunderstood your position?
Good points. If one just acts out these qualities but it's really not in your heart then you may have a problem... The heart is what God reads.
30 Aug 09
Originally posted by ThinkOfOneNo, I think you are missunderstanding me on that. A person can be righteous in God's eyes as was Noah. But being a good and righteous person does not mean your a saved person if that's what you mean? Let me know.
From other posts of yours, I gather that ultimately you don't agree with these points. I gather that you believe it is not possible for anyone to be righteous. That at best, someone can only have a strong desire to be righteous and therefore can only act righteous. Ultimately such a person is acting the part. Have I misunderstood your position?
30 Aug 09
Originally posted by galveston75I thought you believed it impossible for man to stop committing sin and therefore from being righteous.
No, I think you are missunderstanding me on that. A person can be righteous in God's eyes as was Noah. But being a good and righteous person does not mean your a saved person if that's what you mean? Let me know.
righ·teous
1 : acting in accord with divine or moral law : free from guilt or sin.
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/righteous
30 Aug 09
4 edits
Originally posted by divegeesterIt's pretty simple really, don't sin.
Pretend you have 2 minutes to explain salvation to an enquiring unbeliever. What are the key facts assuming the person has the ability to believe what you say - what indeed would you say. A question to all faiths and denominations especially:
> Mormons
> Jehovah Witnesses
> Muslims
I'm looking for straight forward but all encompassing respo ...[text shortened]... ave to believe, and what if anything should I do to prevent myself going to hell?
Thank you.
Of course, if you have sinned, which we all have, you have a small problem. So the question begs, what must we do once we have sinned to be "righteous" once again?
Christ had the answer I believe as he pointed to himself as the way, the truth, and the life. Of course, people will claim that with or without Christ you have to "earn" your way out of sin or somehow pay for it through works, however, this is problematic to say the least. After all, how much good works is enough to make up for our sinning? Biblically, the thief on the cross dying next to Christ is the answer to this question. The theif had no oppurtunity for good works or to lead a "good" life, yet Christ saw his faith in Christ's ability and power over sin, hell, and the grave and he was saved.
Biblically, faith makes one righteous just as Abraham was declared righteous because of his faith. Basically it is the recognition that God is worthy enough to be trusted and that he is righteous enough to follow, thus, when you follow him you too become righteous. Basically it is akin to repentance in that you decide to follow God instead of your own sorry self. So the question begs, if faith saves, then faith in what? For me, it is faith in God and the provision he made for me which is the sacrifice Christ made for me and the faith to follow his example.
I find it interesting, however, that the vast majority of the world's religions view salvation as nothing more than a matter of getting out an over sized scale and weighing your good verses your bad EXCEPT when it comes to the grace of salvation through one Jesus Christ. As Paul once wrote, salvation is not earned least any man should boast. After all, should we give glory to ourselves? It seems to me that all glory, honor, and praise belongs to God from which we originated. Paul also said that whoever confesses with their mouth that Jesus IS Lord then they shall be saved. For me, it is a confession that I believe Jesus to be God in the flesh as well as Lord in my life. It is a declaration that I have turned to follow he who is righteous which by default makes me so as well.
30 Aug 09
1 edit
Originally posted by ThinkOfOneIt is impossible for man to not sin. 1Kings 8:46. Rom 5:12. So since we all sin as every human on earth has, the goodness and righteousness that God said about Noah was exemplary in comparison to the humans that were around him, because God said that all flesh was bad.
I thought you believed it impossible for man to stop committing sin and therefore from being righteous.
righ·teous
1 : acting in accord with divine or moral law : free from guilt or sin.
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/righteous
So Noah did sin as all humans do, but compared to the world around him he was a very good man and he loved his God.
30 Aug 09
1 edit
Originally posted by galveston75Then you do not agree with the following as your post indicated:
It is impossible for man to not sin. 1Kings 8:46. Rom 5:12. So since we all sin as every human on earth has, the goodness and righteousness that God said about Noah was exemplary in comparison to the humans that were around him, because God said that all flesh was bad.
So Noah did sin as all humans do, but compared to the world around him he was a very good man and he loved his God.
"It isn't about acting truthful, loving, compassionate, just, etc. It's about being truthful, loving, compassionate, just, etc. Here's an example that might help you understand the distinction. There are many people who, under most circumstances, would not murder anyone. However, in certain situations they would. There are also people who would not murder anyone under any circumstances. For them, murder is not an option. They have no desire to murder anyone and there is no situation that would incite such a desire."
You believe that at best, someone can only have a strong desire to be righteous and therefore can only act righteous. Ultimately such a person is acting the part.
30 Aug 09
Originally posted by ThinkOfOneWell if your heading in the direction you did before trying to trap me into some word games I'm not going there. This is not what this thread is about. This person is asking a good question and that's what I'm focusing on here...
Then you do not agree with the following as your post indicated:
"It isn't about acting truthful, loving, compassionate, just, etc. It's about being truthful, loving, compassionate, just, etc. Here's an example that might help you understand the distinction. There are many people who, under most circumstances, would not murder anyone. How ...[text shortened]... ighteous and therefore can only act righteous. Ultimately such a person is acting the part.
30 Aug 09
Originally posted by galveston75Whether you want to believe it or not, it is you who is playing "word games" when you assert that someone can simultaneously be righteous and continue to sin. Righteousness and sin are contradictory terms. Either they are righteous, i.e., are one with God or they continue to sin, i.e. are apart from God. They cannot be simultaneously "one" and "apart".
Well if your heading in the direction you did before trying to trap me into some word games I'm not going there. This is not what this thread is about. This person is asking a good question and that's what I'm focusing on here...
30 Aug 09
Originally posted by divegeesterHi DW,
May I politely ask the JW and Mormon membes here; do I have to join your church as part of my salvation?
I was raised Mormon and while I'm still on their books officially, they haven't claimed me in years. 🙂
There tends to be a general misconception about what Mormons believe about hell and who they think will go there.
In a nutshell, Mormons believe very few will even qualify for hell because they believe that hell is reserved for those who have had a fullness of knowledge and still deny the Holy Spirit. To them, that means that one would actually have to first be a Mormon with all the knowledge and ordinances performed and then turn around and deny the Holy Spirit. Mormons also believe that most Mormons won't get a fullness of knowledge and the Holy Spirit...so in a sense we'll all safe...
That being said, there is a certain system of degrees of Heaven (three main Heavens) which divide people according to their knowledge and faithfulness. It's all good because they believe that even the lowest degree of heaven is better than earth life.
Ok, so that wasn't so much of a nutshell...but, short enough for a rudimentary understanding. Message me if you want to know more...I've got a pretty good grasp on Mormonism, it's doctrine, culture and mythology.