27 Jun 06
Originally posted by twhiteheadI will not be so bold to say that all suffering comes from poverty. However, statistically those who are live in poverty suffer many more hardships than those who do not. Being African changes nothing regarding these truths.
Are you saying that Africans have only suffered because they are poor?
27 Jun 06
Originally posted by twhiteheadFor some one who has never existed, he sure has become famous.
I dont know if Moses existed. Can you provide any evidence outside the Bible for the existence of Jewish slaves in Egypt or for any of the events described about the time of Moses? Are you aware that the basic story exists in other cultures and predates the Jewish version?
27 Jun 06
1 edit
Originally posted by twhiteheadAnd I believe that Noah's ark exists. So what?
Firstly I beleive that the whole 400 years of slavery in Egypt is a made up story.
Secondly I believe that during the exitence of the state of Israel, the palestinians have suffered more than the Israelis.
I belive Arabs have a long history of suffering at the hands of Christians.
But how do you quantify it all and exactly what constitutes a 'race'? In ...[text shortened]... hier new neighbours often get persecuted in some way. This happens a lot to indians in africa.
I have provided ample evidence for showing the persecution of God's chosen people in the world since the begining of recorded history. Where is the evidence for your beliefs?
27 Jun 06
Originally posted by whodeyYet you havent provided any way to measure the said persecution. According to the Moses story, the egyptians suffered more than the Jews at that time.
And I believe that Noah's ark exists. So what?
I have provided ample evidence for showing the persecution of God's chosen people in the world since the begining of recorded history. Where is the evidence for your beliefs?
In my view racism against black people has always exceeded antisemitism world wide, with the possible exception of a few years around the second world war. Remembering though that then and now nazis and thier supporters were racist against black people too.
The fact that the jewish people and thier culture remain to this day is in fact an indication that they never experienced a genocide to the extent of wipeing out thier culture as has happened to many other peoples throughout history, sometimes at the hands of jews and christians.
You still have not said why you think that Israel is more persecuted than the palestinians.
It is a fact that recorded history shows without doubt that more black people have been enslaved than jews.
You want links, start here
http://www.geocities.com/CollegePark/Classroom/9912/blackholocaust.html
27 Jun 06
5 edits
Originally posted by twhiteheadNow thats more like it! I would say this, however. When you refer to "black", you are refering to people of a certain skin pigmentation. You are not refering specifically to a particular culture/religion. In fact, Africa is a "hodge-podge" of religions and cultures.
Yet you havent provided any way to measure the said persecution. According to the Moses story, the egyptians suffered more than the Jews at that time.
In my view racism against black people has always exceeded antisemitism world wide, with the possible exception of a few years around the second world war. Remembering though that then and now nazis and th ...[text shortened]... want links, start here
http://www.geocities.com/CollegePark/Classroom/9912/blackholocaust.html
Growing up, have you ever been around another child that looks differnet in any way? What happens to him? He typically incurs the wrath of other children that see him as "different". This difference is a percieved threat to the world that they know and understand. It would be nice to think as people age that they also mature and would not engage in similair behavior, but we know this is not the case. I think this is more at the core of why "black" are persecuted more on average.
In regards to the Jewish people, however, there is no such visible differnece. In fact, the Jewish people were often told to wear certain badges and other items of clothing that would distinguish them as differnt so that they could incur the wrath of others as do "blacks" incur wrath naturally from other people because of the different color of their skin. This was done in many instances throughout history to the Jewish people and is most infamous with Hilter as he made them wear the star of David to dinstinguish themselves. You see, if there is no visible difference in another person, it is much harder to discriminate against them due to the fact that they are harder to spot. My question is why was this done repeatidly to the Jewish people over the centuries and to no other people of a particular culture/religion.
27 Jun 06
1 edit
Originally posted by whodeyIn the Old Testament, God repeatedly allowed other nations to rise up against Israel to punish them for disobedience. In the New Testament, when Pilate could find no fault in Jesus, they said crucify Him anyway, and his blood be on us and our children. i.e. they were assuming responsibility for his death.
My question is why was this done repeatidly to the Jewish people over the centuries and to no other people of a particular culture/religion.
27 Jun 06
3 edits
Originally posted by masscatSo do you think the persecution of Jews is therefore justifiable using such logic as has been done by "Christians" throughout history? Granted, God raised up other nations against them to chastise them at times for their sin, but he then turned around and chastised the other nations due to their cruelty and inhumanity towards Israel in the process. The lesson learned is that God judges and chastises sin and not that the sinner necessarily be damned if they repent. Once God chasitsed Israel, he then turned his face back to them again and again and again as they rebuilt and reestablished their nation and their relationship with him. Just becasue God chooses to chastise them in no way means he has given up on them and wants us to be cruel towards them. If you don't believe me just read Revelation and you will see Israels role in the final sulution to the Jewish question which is the 1000 year millenial reign with Christ.
In the Old Testament, God repeatedly allowed other nations to rise up against Israel to punish them for disobedience. In the New Testament, when Pilate could find no fault in Jesus, they said crucify Him anyway, and his blood be on us and our children. i.e. they were assuming responsibility for his death.
27 Jun 06
Originally posted by masscatYou can't pin the rap on a whole nation for the sake of a bloodthirsty mob. And who's to say there were only Jews in the crowd? Bloody hell. This is the nastiest reasoning I have come across for some time.
In the Old Testament, God repeatedly allowed other nations to rise up against Israel to punish them for disobedience. In the New Testament, when Pilate could find no fault in Jesus, they said crucify Him anyway, and his blood be on us and our children. i.e. they were assuming responsibility for his death.
27 Jun 06
3 edits
Originally posted by dottewellI would say that there is chastisement that comes from God and their is persecution that comes from Satan. Chastisement in no way evokes cruelty as a prerequisite. If a parent is loving, that parent will chastise their children when appropriate. Chastisement in an unloving form often is equated with abuse. The main function of chatisement in a loving form is correction to prevent further behavoir that is detremental to those that we love. Persecution is more in the lines of abuse and its funcion is mainly to feed the fire of anger, hate, and fear. The killing of the Israeli first born by the Egyptians that you refered to is more along the lines of persectuion and unloving chastisement.
Right then. I'm off to Egypt to kill some first-born sons.
27 Jun 06
Originally posted by Bosse de NageI didn't say this...you can read about it in your Bible.
You can't pin the rap on a whole nation for the sake of a bloodthirsty mob. And who's to say there were only Jews in the crowd? Bloody hell. This is the nastiest reasoning I have come across for some time.
27 Jun 06
Originally posted by whodeySee my post on page two re things done by "Christians." The nations going against Israel were not always "Christian" nations. It's not for me to judge what God has allowed to happen to His people whether by heathen nations, Nazis, or Arabs. And, of course, in Revelation, Russia and the European nations of the revised Roman Empire (Common Market nations?) are not out of the picture either. In Revelation, it describes a miracle from God that saves Israel from total desctruction; recognition by Israel that only God has saved them is what causes them to realize Jesus was the Messiah. BTW the promise God made to bless them that bless Israel and curse them that curse Israel is still in effect.
[b]So do you think the persecution of Jews is therefore justifiable using such logic as has been done by "Christians" throughout history?