28 Jun 06
Originally posted by masscatI saw your post on page two and I will have to tell you that there were people such as Martin Luther who did in fact favor persecuting the Jewish people. This was after he attempted to convert them and found them to be unwilling. This enraged Luther and he later adopted the theology that they were an accursed people due to the fact that the Jewish people crucified Christ and continue to reject their Messiah as a group. This theology was adopted by many other "Christian" theologians and was more the norm than otherwise. In my view these were Christians but were Christians with a warped theology that was and continues to be a sad episode in the world of Christiandome. As Christians we must respect the free will of others who reject our faith whether they be Jew or otherwise. Why would God violate the free will he has chosen to give us?
See my post on page two re things done by "Christians." The nations going against Israel were not always "Christian" nations. It's not for me to judge what God has allowed to happen to His people whether by heathen nations, Nazis, or Arabs. And, of course, in Revelation, Russia and the European nations of the revised Roman Empire (Common Market nations?) ...[text shortened]... d made to bless them that bless Israel and curse them that curse Israel is still in effect.
28 Jun 06
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Originally posted by XanthosNZI can only but agree with you, scholar. Sloppy revision on my part--and an injustice to whodey, no doubt, for he is sure to have had his own reasons for spelling Christiandome that way. For my part, the word connotes a lethal form of ice hockey...
You can't drop the e from Christiandome and yet not actually completely correct it to Christendom. It's just not right.
Christiandome sounds like an updated version of Gladiatorial combat in Rome.
28 Jun 06
Originally posted by whodeyThe title of the thread clearly says "race" or didnt you read your own title?
Now thats more like it! I would say this, however. When you refer to "black", you are refering to people of a certain skin pigmentation. You are not refering specifically to a particular culture/religion. In fact, Africa is a "hodge-podge" of religions and cultures.
In regards to the Jewish people, however, there is no such visible differnece.
I have met a number of people that swear they can spot a jew a mile off. Thier persecution in Germany was largely based on race (skin colour, hair colour etc). Also thier behaviour, and way of dress due to cultural and religious reasons distinguishes them. As you have said, it is commonplace for people who look or act different from the norm to be persecuted in some way.
My question is why was this done repeatidly to the Jewish people over the centuries and to no other people of a particular culture/religion.
No your question said religion/race. And your claim of "no other people" is totaly false as many examples have been given.
If you measure persecution in terms of slavery then the jews have had it easy.
28 Jun 06
Originally posted by whodeyGod won’t violate our free will. I don’t THINK I implied that. The church is full of people with twisted beliefs. I read once where Ghandi wanted to investigate the Christian faith further. He went to church and was stopped at the door and told to “go worship with your own kind.” Turned him off Christianity. Reminds me of the southern preacher who was asked would there be black people in Heaven…he said, “Absolutely. But they will have their own area.” I once worked with a preacher who told me nobody was saved but people in his church, and he had his doubts about half of them. Sad cases of bringing their own prejudices into the church and teaching them as “truth.” For those who reject Christ, well, they are lost, but when it comes to those who are believers, best let God judge because I’m not qualified. I’d put people in Heaven who don’t belong there and keep out some who do If people would properly apply hermeneutics and quit trying to make doctrine out of one or two Scriptures, we wouldn’t have a lot of this mess.
I saw your post on page two and I will have to tell you that there were people such as Martin Luther who did in fact favor persecuting the Jewish people. This was after he attempted to convert them and found them to be unwilling. This enraged Luther and he later adopted the theology that they were an accursed people due to the fact that the Jewish people cr ...[text shortened]... ether they be Jew or otherwise. Why would God violate the free will he has chosen to give us?
28 Jun 06
Originally posted by masscatSorry, but you are not qualified to judge us either.
For those who reject Christ, well, they are lost,...
If people would properly apply hermeneutics and quit trying to make doctrine out of one or two Scriptures, we wouldn’t have a lot of this mess.
You are no different from the people you have just disparaged. You are claiming that your way of interpreting is better. There is no reason to believe that applying hermeneutics is any better than the use of secret decoder rings or making doctrine out of one or two Scriptures.
The I'm right because I think so principle.
28 Jun 06
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Originally posted by twhiteheadUnless one is a born again believer, they are not qualified to speak on things concerning God because they are of a spiritual nature and cannot be understood by unsaved people; they are foolishness to such a person…Bible says so.
Sorry, but you are not qualified to judge us either.
[b]If people would properly apply hermeneutics and quit trying to make doctrine out of one or two Scriptures, we wouldn’t have a lot of this mess.
You are no different from the people you have just disparaged. You are claiming that your way of interpreting is better. There is no reason to believ ...[text shortened]... s or making doctrine out of one or two Scriptures.
The I'm right because I think so principle.[/b]
28 Jun 06
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Originally posted by twhiteheadAs far as the title to the thread it reads race/religion, the implication was a cohesive culture that is that is singled out for persecution as a result of such cohesion. The persecution goes beyond mere appearances but rather is a result of something more. "Blacks" have a wide range of cultural and even racial histories. Africa has a myriad of different dialects and religious beliefs not to mention people from other places around the world such as the Domincan Republic ect. The main connection is skin color. I doubt that someone who hates "Blacks" cares little about their culture and does not care where they are from or what they believe.
The title of the thread clearly says "race" or didnt you read your own title?
[b]In regards to the Jewish people, however, there is no such visible differnece.
I have met a number of people that swear they can spot a jew a mile off. Thier persecution in Germany was largely based on race (skin colour, hair colour etc). Also thier behaviour, and way been given.
If you measure persecution in terms of slavery then the jews have had it easy.[/b]
In regards to your speculation that Jewish people can be visible just by looking at them I would say that history refutes this notion based on the number of instances provided showing the efforts to physically mark them as Jews. Some were told to wear yellow hats, some were told to wear yellow badges and some were told to wear the star of David ect. I would also say that I have met many Jewish people who I would not have known were Jewish just by looking at them. Anyhew, they all look alike to me anyway.
28 Jun 06
Originally posted by XanthosNZI can see that the profoundness of my misspellin eludes you. Perhaps some day you will be able to understand its meaning.
You can't drop the e from Christiandome and yet not actually completely correct it to Christendom. It's just not right.
Christiandome sounds like an updated version of Gladiatorial combat in Rome.
28 Jun 06
We got to remember it is said that there is one race of people that will always be persecuted through out time. Many believe it to be jewish u look at thier history and u got to think it might be. But we have ask our selfs what is the point of religion nowadays. All it is used for is war and always has been for example the holy wars and present time terrorist say they are only commiting these bombings cause there religion says so. Relgion what ever faith is always going to cause problems.
28 Jun 06
Originally posted by endersgameThe point of this thread was not to address why religion exists and what problems it creates. However, I will give you my beliefs on the matter if you like. Man is at war, the only question is with what. Man has shown over and over the propensity for violence whether or not religion is envolved or not. However, you are right that religion is often thrown in the mix because it is often useful in attempting to rationalize violence. You see this, for example, as Muslims blow themselves up in the name of a "righteous" jihad so that they can go to candy land and be met with 50 virgins. Not only can you rationalize violence through religion, you can then promise them eternal life in the process. My own religion which is christianity does not teach this. Christ said that he who lives by the sword dies by the sword. Christianity states that man is mainly concerned with himself due to his self-centered sin nature and will use religion as a tool for his own bidding if able. Christ's message was one of peace and love. Many wondered why he did not rise up against the Roman Empire that occupied the land in which he lived due to their persecution of himself and his people. He did not raise a finger to free Israel from the chains of the Roman Empire, rather, he came to free man from the chains of his own heart on a personal level. To free men of outward violence and oppression wisdom dictates that you must first attack the source of such darkness in ones soul. This was Christs message and he has set the standard. I cannot stop those who claim to be Christian and who do not follow the teachings of the one they claim to follow.
We got to remember it is said that there is one race of people that will always be persecuted through out time. Many believe it to be jewish u look at thier history and u got to think it might be. But we have ask our selfs what is the point of religion nowadays. All it is used for is war and always has been for example the holy wars and present time terro ...[text shortened]... ombings cause there religion says so. Relgion what ever faith is always going to cause problems.
29 Jun 06
Originally posted by whodeyThe jews as you have stated earlier are not a single race, nor even a single culture. Are they even a single religion?
As far as the title to the thread it reads race/religion, the implication was a cohesive culture that is that is singled out for persecution as a result of such cohesion.
The persecution goes beyond mere appearances but rather is a result of something more.
Thats your opinion but you have not shown any evidence for this.
"Blacks" have a wide range of cultural and even racial histories. Africa has a myriad of different dialects and religious beliefs not to mention people from other places around the world such as the Domincan Republic ect.
I really dont understand where the Domincan Republic comes in. Are you saying that some black people originated there? Please explain.
In regards to your speculation that Jewish people can be visible just by looking at them I would say that history refutes this notion based on the number of instances provided showing the efforts to physically mark them as Jews. Some were told to wear yellow hats, some were told to wear yellow badges and some were told to wear the star of David ect. I would also say that I have met many Jewish people who I would not have known were Jewish just by looking at them. Anyhew, they all look alike to me anyway.
Hitler did not like jews. However his justification for the holocaust was based on race not culture or religion. He believed in the superiority of fair haired blue eyed people.
29 Jun 06
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Originally posted by twhiteheadBut Hitler did not throw every person who was not fair haired and blue eyed into concentration camps now did he. Your previous assertion that the Jews were distinguishable from the general populace upon sight is absurd as I have pointed out. They had to be "marked" in some way to distinguish themselves as different and thus enable persecution. As for blacks they have a natural means in distinguishing themselves as different. This is all I am pointing out. It is unpresidented that such persecution occurs to a particular group of people who are for the most part undistinguishable in society as were and are the Jews.
.[/b]
Hitler did not like jews. However his justification for the holocaust was based on race not culture or religion. He believed in the superiority of fair haired blue eyed people.[/b]
Examples include:
1215 The Fourth Latern Council approved canon laws requiring that "Jews shall wear a special dress. They also had to wear a badge in the form of a ring. This was to enable them to be distinguishable from Christians.
1227 The Synod of Narbonne required Jews to wear an oval badge. This requirement was reinstalled during the 1930's by Hitler, who changed the oval badge to the star of David.
1259 A synod of the archdiocese in Mainz ordered Jews to wear yellow badges.
1267 The Synod of Vienna ordered Jews to wear horned hats. Thomas Aquinas said that Jews should live in perpetual servitude.
1434 Jewish men in Augsburg had to sew yellow badges to their clothes. Across Europe, Jews were forced to wear a long undergarment, and overcoat with a yellow patch, bells and a tall pointed hat with a large button on them.
1555 A Roman Catholic Papal, bull, "Cum nimis absurdum," required Jews to wear badges, and live in ghettos. They were not allowed to own property outside the ghetto. Living conditions were dreadful; over 3,000 people were forced to live in about 8 acres of land. Women had to wear a yellow veil or scarf; men had to wear a peice of yellow lcoth on their hat.