21 Oct 12
3 edits
Originally posted by JS357I generalized it, I'm only saying that if they were to show us footage or otherwise strong evidence demonstrating they were around back in the biblical days, doing things to manipulate us.. that would be very challenging for me. But it would not strip me of my faith because ultimately, someone had to have created them, and so on and so on, until there is the Master Creator.
Well you say "and proceeded to convince us" but how would you know they were not minions of Satan or (choose your own words) and their convincing you was evidence of their trickery? That seems to be no challenge at all if you have faith that girds you.
You seem to suggest my faith is feeble. I dare say anyone of faith would be greatly challenged by such an event. You also seem to suggest that with my faith I could just close my eyes and ears and wish it all way... chalk it all up to the devil's work. No, I would listen intently and weigh the evidence. Perhaps even adjust my paradigm in major ways. To do otherwise would be to stick my head in the sand -- something someone of shallow mind and little faith might do.
21 Oct 12
Originally posted by sumydidThat's actually a great thing. That's just science becoming more accurate with each new discovery. Imagine if science was stubborn like religion, desperately clinging to false, ancient beliefs at all cost? You know, like when Christianity fought tooth and nail to keep geocentrism?
Science has back-pedaled a number of times since the days when the "Big Bang" became the cure-all answer for the existence of this universe.
First it was: "Everything exploded into existence from nothing."
Now it is: "Well, what we meant to say was, everything used to be condensed into a single, infinitely small, point of singularity, until it explod ...[text shortened]... relation, which is a felonious breaking of the fundamental scientific law of causality.
Here's a quote by a character from a show called "Stargate": "I'm a scientist: I'm just as excited to find evidence that proves my theories wrong, as I am to find theories that prove them right."
But that's not the real issue, here. The real issue, is that you've demonstrated knowledge that you KNOW scientists don't believe "everything came from nothing", yet STILL used it as point. It seems that you did this in hopes i know nothing about science, which is shameful, intellectual dishonesty.
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21 Oct 12
Originally posted by sumydidOK I get your degree of faith.
I generalized it, I'm only saying that if they were to show us footage or otherwise strong evidence demonstrating they were around back in the biblical days, doing things to manipulate us.. that would be very challenging for me. But it would not strip me of my faith because ultimately, someone had to have created them, and so on and so on, until there is th ...[text shortened]... e to stick my head in the sand -- something someone of shallow mind and little faith might do.
21 Oct 12
Originally posted by vivifyI answered the question, you can go off on who believes that or not I DON'T care.
No one believes that. Not athiests, not evolutionists, no one. So why would someone need to "come up with a cause" for this?
If you have an answer for were everything came from I'd like to hear it.
Kelly
21 Oct 12
Originally posted by googlefudgeTo you it may be irrelevant, I don't really give a wit what you think is or is not
Well for starters that would be a daft reason not to believe in a god because it's really pretty much totally irrelevant
to whether or not one exists.
And secondly, Who says that there was a beginning that needed a first cause?
And thirdly, as you have been told before, we observe things appearing/happening without any cause all the time.
And ca ...[text shortened]... son for you to stop believing in (having a firm conviction of the existence of) your god?
relevant. I answered the question, you don't like my answer, to bad for you. I do
think it is very important, what you care about is all on you.
Kelly
21 Oct 12
Originally posted by JS357Pretty poorly. You should read Ezekiel where "God" has a spaceship with an altar in the middle. Or read the story of a prophet going up to "God" in a fiery chariot with the face of a lion.
"...and to ensure that the people of these planets behave as friendly as possible toward one another, we swing by from our spaceships now and then, and convince them we are gods and command them to follow the rules we lay out for them."
How's that working on Earth?
The Abramamic "God" has been dead (literally) for thousands of years. Probably because they were never divine beings.
And how about those "angels" visiting Sodom and Gommorrah right before they blasted the cities off the planet.
Perhaps, just perhaps there were a number of different "Gods" who visited this planet.
Just perhaps.
21 Oct 12
Originally posted by caissad4So I guess you will want to be ready to fight them if they return, right?
Pretty poorly. You should read Ezekiel where "God" has a spaceship with an altar in the middle. Or read the story of a prophet going up to "God" in a fiery chariot with the face of a lion.
The Abramamic "God" has been dead (literally) for thousands of years. Probably because they were never divine beings.
And how about those "angels" visiting Sodom and Go ...[text shortened]... erhaps there were a number of different "Gods" who visited this planet.
Just perhaps.
21 Oct 12
Originally posted by RJHindsPerhaps those beings no longer exist. If they do indeed still exist it might behoove us to remember that over 3,000 years ago they were more advanced than we are today. Perhaps we are just another 3rd world planet.
So I guess you will want to be ready to fight them if they return, right?
I don't believe any of us truly know the answers. But it does mean we might grow and understand even a small piece of the puzzle.
21 Oct 12
Originally posted by caissad4We only have the word of Jesus the Christ. We have the choice to believe Him or not. Simple as that.
Perhaps those beings no longer exist. If they do indeed still exist it might behoove us to remember that over 3,000 years ago they were more advanced than we are today. Perhaps we are just another 3rd world planet.
I don't believe any of us truly know the answers. But it does mean we might grow and understand even a small piece of the puzzle.
HalleluYah !!! Praise the Lord! Holy! Holy! Holy!
21 Oct 12
Originally posted by vivify"Imagine if science was stubborn like religion, desperately clinging to false, ancient beliefs at all cost?"
That's actually a great thing. That's just science becoming more accurate with each new discovery. Imagine if science was stubborn like religion, desperately clinging to false, ancient beliefs at all cost? You know, like when Christianity fought tooth and nail to keep geocentrism?
Here's a quote by a character from a show called "Stargate": "I'm a scien ...[text shortened]... in hopes i know nothing about science, which is shameful, intellectual dishonesty.
Amusing, as if you'd know if religion is false where it comes to God or other things
or if people who believe in billions of years or evolution are not clinging to things
that are not true.
Kelly
21 Oct 12
2 edits
Originally posted by vivifyOne thing may sway my belief.
For religious folks here, what would be a legitimate reason to not believe in your chosen? In other words, what kind of evidence would be needed in order disprove the validity of the god you follow?
What I want to see is you climb a flag pole naked screeming at the top of your lungs that God does not exist with a target painted on your arse with a sign saying, "If you exist, strike me down now".
If you send us the picture and, in fact, no one strikes you down, I might be inclined to not believe, but not until then.
Emphasis: "might be inclined not to believe". 😛😵
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21 Oct 12
Originally posted by vivify(1)You make a good point in Solomon. But this is old testament. Did Solomon lose his holy spirit? In the old testament it was conditional. But I will not evade your point, I concede here.
1) You say "ex-believers" were never really believers...what about Solomon, who revered God, but turned to worshipping other gods later in life? Since his heart turned from God, are you willing to assert he was never really a believer?
2) The thing with your "spouse" example, is that I don't need faith to believe she's real. You need faith to believe you ...[text shortened]... his army)?
If so, please re-evaluate whether you're deceived or not.
(2) You only believe what you see. Senses wise, this is expected...yet Jesus told Thomas, blessed are those who do not see, yet believe...I see what God has worked in my life, and countless other ways that He reassures my relationship with Him.
(3) The "talking snake" is something you conjure up in your dim understanding. The word is nephesh, which means "brilliant" or "shining", this is how the serpent appeared to Eve. The rest of your comments are also easily explained with a little research. But your disregard for sin, lies at the heart of you understanding what is going on. You look at people as supreme. You don't see the enemy. Were the Allies wrong in killing Nazi's?
Darth Vader? You mean he isn't real?
21 Oct 12
Originally posted by checkbaiterThey believe in Darth Vader. It is Satan the Devil that appears to them as an angel of light that they have a problem with. He is too good at deception. He has turned things upside down for them. 😏
(1)You make a good point in Solomon. But this is old testament. Did Solomon lose his holy spirit? In the old testament it was conditional. But I will not evade your point, I concede here.
(2) You only believe what you see. Senses wise, this is expected...yet Jesus told Thomas, blessed are those who do not see, yet believe...I see what God has worked i ...[text shortened]... enemy. Were the Allies wrong in killing Nazi's?
Darth Vader? You mean he isn't real?