What's wrong with Christmas?

Originally posted by AThousandYoung
The guy thinks I am ridiculous because I'm not PC enough to deceptively mention a religious holy day for a religion I don't practice.

I'm certainly not agreeing with what LH is saying, but I don't agree that not believing
in something means you are being deceptive. I am not Jewish, but I can certainly wish
someone a happy Yom Kippur with complete sincerity, or that they have a blessed
Passover.

That having been said, I would only do so when I was reasonably certain that the person
in question celebrated the holiday in question. 'Happy Holidays' is a safe alternative,
naturally, but I wouldn't use it if I knew that the person in question actually celebrated
Christmas, Kwanza or whatever.

Nemesio

Originally posted by sjeg
[b]Yes, in some countries xians are still persecuted. This is particularly true in states that have fused Islam with their government. Their hostility is not directed only toward xians but also toward non-believers. There is a higher number of xian deaths for two reasons. First, there are more xians there. Second, in some cases, the xian makes trouble for ainly not cause me to deny my heritage and culture. Can you say the same?[/b]

I'm not arguing that there are more xians than any other religious group. In most of the countries in which xians are still executed non-believers are also subject to the same persecution. The reason that xians are killed in larger absolute numbers than non-believers is that they comprise a much larger fraction of the population than do non-believers. Furthermore, they are almost always more active by prostelytizing. This makes them easy targets. I am specifically thinking of very entrenched Islamic countries (e.g. Saudi Arabia, Iran). The one major exception is China, although I do not think xians are actually executed there, but they are certainly persecuted (wrongfully).

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe the deplorable actions in Beslan were not meant to be an attack against xianity, but rather against the Russian government. I don't think it is either fair or accurate to use a tragedy for the Russian people in general to support your argument here. I do not know exactly why the school girls were killed. The one news source I saw presumed the killers to be Islamic fundamentalists. This may be true. It seems to me however that Islamic fundamentalist of the violent sort do not have it out for only xians but rather for infidels, that is non-Muslims.

Prostelytising in some of the Islamic countries is punishable by death. This is why I brought up the issue. I remember when I involved in a major missionary organization that they were very honest with outreach teams heading into certain parts of the Middle East that if their efforts to convert people there could result in death.

I point out the efficacy of church-state seperation because in the past and today, when the state and religion become to closely intwined it most often leads to the power of the state being abused by one narrow doctrine. In many cases, both in the West and the East, this has led to executions.

I take it now that you are Roman Catholic. I generally do not have a gripe with Lucifers Ham. I have even supported him when I believe he is correct. My scorn for Ivanhoe has nothing to do with his religious beliefs. His pathetic demonstrations here have earned him my lowest regards. You are new here. I have not had time to form a complete opinion of you.

I am certainly not against xians in general. While I disagree with the tenets in which they place their faith, I am not out to get all xians. I have many friends who are believers, and at times I enjoy engaging in spirited yet respectful debate with them.

I appreciate my ignorance of goings on in your country. While some may accuse CNN or the New York Times (I think this is the paper you meant. The Washington Post is the other famous one.) of being liberal, this criticism is unwarranted. It was the efforts of some very radical rightwingers (mostly on the radio) that led to the shaping of this myth. CNN and the NYT and the WP are fairly moderate. We have liberal publications, but they do not have the money and client base of these other sources.