Whence came evil?

Originally posted by rwingett
What are your sources for this account? I believe that Vistesd is correct in saying the canonical information is very sparse. I fail to see how you can plausibly parse all that information out of the few relevant passages. The Genesis account certainly makes no reference to any of this. You'd think something that important would have made it in there somewh ...[text shortened]... all made to fail. It was predestined.

Do you agree with that interpretation?

I'll respond to both of the posts between you and v shortly.

Originally posted by rwingett
What are your sources for this account? I believe that Vistesd is correct in saying the canonical information is very sparse. I fail to see how you can plausibly parse all that information out of the few relevant passages. The Genesis account certainly makes no reference to any of this. You'd think something that important would have made it in there somewh ...[text shortened]... all made to fail. It was predestined.

Do you agree with that interpretation?

I'll respond to both of the posts between you and v shortly.

Originally posted by Phuzudaka
Man was also good before he fell. Where does the Bible say that the serpant was still good when he deceived Eve?

Do you consider snakes to be evil? What about lizards--guilty by association? Does your reprobation extend to the man-eating shark? the grizzly, bane of men in silly caps? the mosquito?

Can the essence of evil be extracted from these vermin to serve some useful purpose. perhaps as the basis for an air freshener?

Originally posted by Bosse de Nage
Do you consider snakes to be evil? What about lizards--guilty by association? Does your reprobation extend to the man-eating shark? the grizzly, bane of men in silly caps? the mosquito?

Can the essence of evil be extracted from these vermin to serve some useful purpose. perhaps as the basis for an air freshener?

Many people associate snakes with a symbol of evil.

Originally posted by Phuzudaka
So the question is pointless if you believe that God does not exist.

What do you mean? The question of where evil comes from is still an interesting one, regardless of god's existence. I happen to think there's no such thing, but the concept of evil's origins is still one I can investigate by hearing the views of others.

Originally posted by Starrman
What do you mean? The question of where evil comes from is still an interesting one, regardless of god's existence. I happen to think there's no such thing, but the concept of evil's origins is still one I can investigate by hearing the views of others.

The question of the existance of evil can only be answered within the framework of God's existance. Or do you disagree?

Originally posted by Phuzudaka
The question of the existance of evil can only be answered within the framework of God's existance. Or do you disagree?

There's three options, evil exists and has a deitic origin, evil exists and has a natural origin, evil does not exist. Whilst I ascribe to the third option, it makes the investigation no less interesting.

Originally posted by Phuzudaka
Many people associate snakes with a symbol of evil.

Yes, owls too. Are owls evil?

Originally posted by Starrman
There's three options, evil exists and has a deitic origin, evil exists and has a natural origin, evil does not exist. Whilst I ascribe to the third option, it makes the investigation no less interesting.

You just believe that evil does not exist, or is there evidence to support this view?

Originally posted by Phuzudaka
You just believe that evil does not exist, or is there evidence to support this view?

Well, it's more a lack of evidence to the contrary. I think 'Evil' as used by most people is a cultural reification of things which act severely in opposition to their moral framework (or perhaps even their natural view of Eudaimonia). But I've yet to see any evidence for the existence of anything outside of the conceptual.

Originally posted by Bosse de Nage
Yes, owls too. Are owls evil?

The Bible does not indicate that the owl was deceptive.

Originally posted by Starrman
Well, it's more a lack of evidence to the contrary. I think 'Evil' as used by most people is a cultural reification of things which act severely in opposition to their moral framework (or perhaps even their natural view of Eudaimonia). But I've yet to see any evidence for the existence of anything outside of the conceptual.

Would you regard your own existance as merely a conceptual one?

Originally posted by Phuzudaka
Would you regard your own existance as merely a conceptual one?

I'm not sure what that has to do with this topic. Nevertheless, empirically I can only account for my existence as a subjective individual. So I accept a common sense view of the objective world based on parsimony.

Originally posted by rwingett
Any comments?

As an atheist I don't believe in good and evil. However from my understanding of Christianity and the word 'evil' in the English language, 'evil' is not a thing or entity but rather a classification of actions and thus not 'created' at all. I also don't think that evil is portrayed as being unique to the universe as Satan is supposedly from heaven, so talking about genesis will get you nowhere.

I have always seen the story of Adam and Eve as an attempt to hide the problem of evil behind a veil of smoke screens just as the 'first cause' problem gets hidden by claiming that God is an uncaused cause. Both effectively do not answer the question at all but appear to do so even though all they actually do is pass the problem on. However most people seem to accept the explanation even though further questioning invariably shows that they do not actually understand it and do not see a genuine explanation in the story.

Originally posted by Starrman
I'm not sure what that has to do with this topic. Nevertheless, empirically I can only account for my existence as a subjective individual. So I accept a common sense view of the objective world based on parsimony.

Evil(noun) is defined as:

-The quality of being morally bad or wrong; wickedness.
-That which causes harm, misfortune, or destruction: a leader's power to do both good and evil.
-An evil force, power, or personification.
-Something that is a cause or source of suffering, injury, or destruction: the social evils of poverty and injustice.

You do not believe that any of these qualifications exist?