Whence came evil?

Originally posted by Phuzudaka
[b]Witchcraft is smoke and mirrors, you should try living in the real world.

Are you sucking that our of your thumb or are you an ex-witchdoctor? You don't have a coocking clue what witchcraft is all about. Your knowledge of the Occult is appauling to say the least.[/b]

My knowledge of the occult is probably higher than most, since I had a large interest in it at the age of 16. I studied the history of transcendental magic in Europe, the origins of the myths folklore associated with it, and have read somewhat on Wiccans, Pagan pre Roman rituals, Aleister Crowley, Eliphas Levi and even some Kabbalistic rooted hagiology and demonology (though this was merely a passing fad). Whilst I have probably forgotten most of the detail, I'd hazard a guess that my conceptual knowledge is still pretty good.

Why would I be an ex-witchdoctor if I don't believe in magic?

Originally posted by twhitehead
He clearly stated that he does not believe in magic. He therefore could not possibly believe that he has been involved in witchcraft as that would require him to believe in magic.

I am in Africa and I have heard a few vague stories of witchcraft but have never witnessed any. The fact that most of those I have heard of that profess to practice it are po ...[text shortened]... end whose father was a witch-doctor but when his children got sick he took them to the hospital!

He clearly stated that he does not believe in magic. He therefore could not possibly believe that he has been involved in witchcraft as that would require him to believe in magic.

I did not ask him whether he believed that he has been involved in witchcraft. I am asking him whether or not he has ever practised witchcraft. His non-belief in magic is entirely irrelevant.

Originally posted by Phuzudaka
[b]He clearly stated that he does not believe in magic. He therefore could not possibly believe that he has been involved in witchcraft as that would require him to believe in magic.

I did not ask him whether he believed that he has been involved in witchcraft. I am asking him whether or not he has ever practised witchcraft. His non-belief in magic is entirely irrelevant.[/b]

What? Why would I practice witchcraft if I don't believe in it? What a bizarre question to ask.

Originally posted by Starrman
My knowledge of the occult is probably higher than most, since I had a large interest in it at the age of 16. I studied the history of transcendental magic in Europe, the origins of the myths folklore associated with it, and have read somewhat on Wiccans, Pagan pre Roman rituals, Aleister Crowley, Eliphas Levi and even some Kabbalistic rooted hagiology and ...[text shortened]... wledge is still pretty good.

Why would I be an ex-witchdoctor if I don't believe in magic?

Since you have never practised witchcraft, your first hand knowledge on the subject is non-existant.

I have yet to meet a practising witchdoctor who believes that the occult is an old hags fairy tale.

Originally posted by Starrman
What? Why would I practice witchcraft if I don't believe in it? What a bizarre question to ask.

That fact that you don't believe it before you have even tried it shows that you are a bias bigot.

Originally posted by Phuzudaka
I did not ask him whether he believed that he has been involved in witchcraft. I am asking him whether or not he has ever practised witchcraft. His non-belief in magic is entirely irrelevant.

And as I said, he could not possibly believe that he has ever practiced witchcraft if he does not believe in it. His non-belief is not only relevant but directly answers your question.

Originally posted by Phuzudaka
That fact that you don't believe it before you have even tried it shows that you are a bias bigot.

It is impossible to try something you do not believe in or at least impossible to believe you are trying it.

Originally posted by twhitehead
And as I said, he could not possibly believe that he has ever practiced witchcraft if he does not believe in it. His non-belief is not only relevant but directly answers your question.

His non-belief without having tried it just shows that he is a bias bigot and his input on the topic is irrelevant.

But if he had tried witchcraft and had practised in the occult, and in the process came to believe that the occult was simply an old hags fairy tale, then he may have had a point to make.

Originally posted by twhitehead
It is impossible to try something you do not believe in or at least impossible to believe you are trying it.

So if you don't believe in a certain medicine, is it impossible for you to try it?

Originally posted by Phuzudaka
So if you don't believe in a certain medicine, is it impossible for you to try it?

It is impossible to believe you are trying it.

Originally posted by Phuzudaka
Since you have never practised witchcraft, your first hand knowledge on the subject is non-existant.

I have yet to meet a practising witchdoctor who believes that the occult is an old hags fairy tale.

Having first hand knowledge or not is irrelevant here. There is no evidence to show that the supernatural exists, consequently belief in the supernatural should be withheld, to do otherwise would be madness.

Your second statement is utterly trivial, of course a witchdoctor believes in the occult.

Originally posted by Starrman
Your second statement is utterly trivial, of course a witchdoctor believes in the occult.

"Witchdoctor" is something of a pejorative term.

From your perspective, what is the source of a shaman's power? It's as well to deal with specifics, of course, so you might have to dig up something concrete. (That goes for you too, Phuzudaka).

Originally posted by Bosse de Nage
"Witchdoctor" is something of a pejorative term.

From your perspective, what is the source of a shaman's power? It's as well to deal with specifics, of course, so you might have to dig up something concrete. (That goes for you too, Phuzudaka).

I don't believe he has any 'power'. Prowess in performance, rhetoric and folklore; maybe.

Originally posted by twhitehead
It is impossible to believe you are trying it.

You can believe that you are trying it if do try it, even if you do not believe the medicine works. But by trying it you can find out for sure if it works or not.

Originally posted by Starrman
Having first hand knowledge or not is irrelevant here. There is no evidence to show that the supernatural exists, consequently belief in the supernatural should be withheld, to do otherwise would be madness.

Your second statement is utterly trivial, of course a witchdoctor believes in the occult.

There is no evidence to show that the supernatural exists

That is a rather harsh statement coming from you. Do you really mean to say that there is no evidence for the supernatural even though a large percentage of the population on earth believe that the supernatural exists?

I would say that your stance sounds more like madness.