Where does religion come from?

Originally posted by sonhouse
One thought, our intelligence enables us to see patterns in randomness when in fact nothing is there. Chimps, for instance, cannot imagine patterns embedded in randomness because they have no sense of mind, they cannot visualize internally the idea there might be an active mind behind everything they cannot understand. Their brains are just not sophisticate ...[text shortened]... gious feelings, they can finally grow up and be adults which as a race, we are not even close.

To answer your question in the thread title, religion comes from man.

Originally posted by josephw
To answer your question in the thread title, religion comes from man.

He already knows that for his point is that God and the Holy Bible is a part of religion and is all made up by man to control others.

The Instructor

Originally posted by RJHinds
He already knows that for his point is that God and the Holy Bible is a part of religion and is all made up by man to control others.

The Instructor

My point RJ, and I hope sonhouse catches it, is that religion is man made, but faith is another matter altogether.

I've brought this point up in the past, but it just doesn't seem to get his attention; possibly because he doesn't see the difference between the two.

Originally posted by josephw
My point RJ, and I hope sonhouse catches it, is that religion is man made, but faith is another matter altogether.

I've brought this point up in the past, but it just doesn't seem to get his attention; possibly because he doesn't see the difference between the two.

He has faith alright. He has faith in his own abilities and evilution scientists. True religion is what focuses our faith in God rather than man.

The Instructor

Originally posted by RJHinds
He has faith alright. He has faith in his own abilities and evilution scientists. True religion is what focuses our faith in God rather than man.

The Instructor

I think you and I could have an interesting discussion about faith and religion. I don't follow Christianity as a religious practice, but as an act of faith.

Originally posted by josephw
I think you and I could have an interesting discussion about faith and religion. I don't follow Christianity as a religious practice, but as an act of faith.

Religious practices, like baptism and like the partaking of communion in the Lord's Supper is also an act of faith in obedience to His commandments.

The Instructor

Originally posted by sonhouse
Just wondered if you had ever taken LSD or mescalin? The problem with those drugs is they can have effects far removed from the day you take them and a recurrence of the high can happen years later, why I have no idea but that has been reported in the literature.

Like if you took acid in say 1990 and then you were at your house in 2005 and started seein ...[text shortened]... fter all that would you want to ascribe your experience to some kind of supernatural event.

The use of LSD was a definite factor with my initial experiences. I actually raised this problem telepathically with whoever was communicating with me. The response was very diplomatic. Basically "they" said that I should be able to get to these elevated states of consciousness without any LSD,(or any other drugs). I understood this at once.
But for a while there I myself was trying to think of whether these experiences were just delayed trips of some sort.

As my understanding grew, I realized the difference between these heightened consciousness experiences (drugs or no) and just plain drug experiences.
It seems the only one who could really make head or tail of this stuff was me.

When I saw what I believe to be a ufo, I had been meditating and hence probably more clear in my mind than even normal.

My conclusion is that what we consider to be our normal waking state(s) of consciousness is actually not seeing all of reality. The 3-d perception of the world is just a partial representation/reflection of the total of what we can possibly see.

So how can I tell the difference between an LSD-like trip and an actual heightened consciousness trip? I'm not exactly sure, but there seems to be some extra feelings that I sense that are not present when just tripping on hallucigonens .

When I saw that ufo, there was a surge of energy through my chakras which mirrored the flight path of the ufo. I'm not saying that this flying thingy was not of terrestrial origin, made by men, but the technology is definately not known to the general public.

Other than this , making sense of these "trips" has given my life direction and much needed purpose. I no longer need "hope" or "faith" to know that there is more than meets the eye. I have direct experience which is the best proof of anything , better than others telling me what what is, or reading about similar stuff in books.

Also, the fear I experienced during my first few trips turned out to be only the fear that I was already carrying with me. Somehow this "fear" is magnified when in these higher states, and this was what was causing my misunderstanding of these trips. Now when I feel myself being elevated in consciousness , whether in a dream or during my waking state, I am ready to let go of me fear of the trip and just go with it. This means I get to stay longer, and experience more clearly what is actually hapening, unclouded by my own fear and misunderstanding.

Originally posted by karoly aczel
The use of LSD was a definite factor with my initial experiences. I actually raised this problem telepathically with whoever was communicating with me. The response was very diplomatic. Basically "they" said that I should be able to get to these elevated states of consciousness without any LSD,(or any other drugs). I understood this at once.
But for ...[text shortened]... re clearly what is actually hapening, unclouded by my own fear and misunderstanding.

I have heard that LSD can do weird things to your mind. I would advice you to stay away from it.

The Instructor

Originally posted by RJHinds
I have heard that LSD can do weird things to your mind. I would advice you to stay away from it.

The Instructor

LSD can also be very beneficial if used correctly.

I have read of one guy who was a wife-beating alcoholic who wanted help with his problem. He was given a dose of LSD and then given hypnotherapy by an experienced doctor.
The drug allowed him to see more clearly into the problems that his drinking was causing for him and his family. He fully recovered from his alcoholism after just one session.


All the same your advice is noted, but surely you cant expect me to have any respect for your advice as I would for someone who has taken the time to understand me for who I actually am, and not just dismissed me as the work of some fictional devil character, who seems to blamed for anything that doesn't conform to your understanding of religion and spirituality.

Originally posted by karoly aczel
LSD can also be very beneficial if used correctly.

I have read of one guy who was a wife-beating alcoholic who wanted help with his problem. He was given a dose of LSD and then given hypnotherapy by an experienced doctor.
The drug allowed him to see more clearly into the problems that his drinking was causing for him and his family. He fully recove ...[text shortened]... to blamed for anything that doesn't conform to your understanding of religion and spirituality.

Whatever.

The Instructor

Originally posted by RJHinds
Whatever.

The Instructor

I really hate that word ( "whatever" )

I thought only snotty teenagers used it in this type of context.
It seems to show a real non-caring attitude, which I thought would be the opposite of a (spiritual) "instructor" . Well?

Originally posted by karoly aczel
I really hate that word ( "whatever" )

I thought only snotty teenagers used it in this type of context.
It seems to show a real non-caring attitude, which I thought would be the opposite of a (spiritual) "instructor" . Well?

Since you state you have no respect for my advice, what do you expect?

The Instructor

Originally posted by RJHinds
Since you state you have no respect for my advice, what do you expect?

The Instructor

I expect nothing less although even you have been known to surprise me every once in a while🙂

Again may I remind you that there is nothing in your attitude or words that would warrant my respect. I have never said that you are influenced by some demonic entity, rather I have tried to use your words to make my point. You on the other hand seem hell bent on dismissing out of hand anything that doesn't conform to your religious ideas - even if my words have been positive with no ill effects.

Originally posted by karoly aczel
I expect nothing less although even you have been known to surprise me every once in a while🙂

Again may I remind you that there is nothing in your attitude or words that would warrant my respect. I have never said that you are influenced by some demonic entity, rather I have tried to use your words to make my point. You on the other hand seem hell b ...[text shortened]... sn't conform to your religious ideas - even if my words have been positive with no ill effects.

That's because I am right and you are wrong.

The instructor

Originally posted by RJHinds
That's because I am right and you are wrong.

The instructor

What? About everything or something in particular?

You'll forgive me if I have a little chuckle at this post as it seems very childish and not very conducive to good 'debating'.

Remember that I do not view Christianity as a false religion. I have often said that is valid as I have seen the power of it change many lives for the better.
I think where you have problems with me is when I say that other religions also have merits and are just as worthy as Christianity.

Nothing in your attitude, nor in any other Christians comments here (or anywhere else) have made me pause for thought about whether I am right or wrong about my appraisal of religion in general. Your turn.