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@divegeester saidCould you rephrase that in the form of a question? 😉
You have a strange way of debating people.
@executioner-brand saidJohn 14:3
Here on earth, another galaxy far far away or even beyond the stars and time. Will you be able to travel there one day?
Or maybe jesus just had really good dreams that will never join with reality and the laws that exist.
And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and will take you to myself, that where I am you may be also.
Where ever Jesus has prepared a place for us.
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@kellyjay saidThank you for that, KJ. That helps to resolve the apparent discrepancy between "Follow me" and "Where I am, you cannot come; where I go, you cannot follow."
John 14:3
And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and will take you to myself, that where I am you may be also.
Where ever Jesus has prepared a place for us.
@galveston75 saidNO. it is still "made up" .. just made up by people in the past.
I posted what the bible describes as heaven. That is my belief. Not some made up opinion but my belief in what the Bible says.
@wolfgang59 saidYour just making that up!
NO. it is still "made up" .. just made up by people in the past.
@ghost-of-a-duke saidI think you make stuff up too, because modern man makes things up.
Putting your objective hat on, which is more likely:
1. Ancient man made stuff up.
2. A divine being inspired ancient man to write stuff down.
With respect to your question, I choose (2) because I think only a divine being can do what was done in the writing and maintaining scripture throughout time.
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@kellyjay saidI don't think sir that was an objective hat you put on your head. I suspect it was a bucket. (Joke).
I think you make stuff up too, because modern man makes things up.
With respect to your question, I choose (2) because I think only a divine being can do what was done in the writing and maintaining scripture throughout time.
If you have already conceded modern man makes stuff up, why would you think this didn't also apply to ancient man?
In Job: A Comedy of Justice, Robert Heinlein sums up; heaven is where those you love are. As in the story, that place changes all the time;
"I have what I want. I would not want to be a saint in Heaven if Margrethe was not with me; I wouldn't fear going to Hell if she was there — not that I believe in Hell or ever stood a chance of being a saint in Heaven.
Samuel Clemens put it: "Where she was, there was Eden." Omar phrased it: "thou beside me in the wilderness, ah wilderness were paradise enow." Browning termed it: Summum Bonum. All were asserting the same great truth, which is for me:
Heaven is where Margrethe is."
--Robert Heinlein, Job, AComedy of Justice
Recently, my three year old granddaughter had the following conversation with her father:
"I want to go to Mass."
"There's no Mass today."
"Uh huh! Mom, are you going to Mass?"
To which my agnostic daughter replied,
"Oh no, honey, I don't go to Mass."
My son-in-law laughed,
"Mom's going to hell."
To which my granddaughter retorted,
"I want to go to hell."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
As for me, I'm going wherever she's going.
"...and a little child shall lead..."
@ghost-of-a-duke saidIt would not be possible to do the things people claim about altering the text to suit some without it being clearly detectable. It would be impossible to even put together the scriptures without the knowledge of those who experienced it. The document fragments and complete documents along with church creeds from all over the world line up with each other, these include those that were on different continents written in different languages. The list goes on and on, for many other reasons too.
I don't think sir that was an objective hat you put on your head. I suspect it was a bucket. (Joke).
If you have already conceded modern man makes stuff up, why would you think this didn't also apply to ancient man?
If you were going to dismiss the OT and especially the NT you'd have to throw out just about every other old text on any given subjects because none of them have the same level of authenticity for their reliability.
The list goes on and on, from OT medical practices to modern day ones, the knowledge of the day and what Moses put into the OT books were healthy while many of the practices of his day were not.
I'm trying to think of a come back for you bucket joke, nothing is coming to mind, but as soon as it does....oh boy...I'm going … well I don't know what I'm going to do but I am going to do something. 🙂
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@Executioner-Brand
The question is Where is Heaven. My answer is "I don't know."
But I do know that we can be joined in part of our being to that realm. That is part of us can reside in that atmosphere so that heaven is with us as we walk here on earth.
You see the New Testament book of Hebrews has said that Jesus passed through the heavens, in His exaltation.
It says He entered into heaven for us, to appear before the face of God as a High Priest.
But the interesting thing is that the writer exhorts the believers to "come forward" to His throne of grace in heaven, and to "come forward" to God. So it says Christ is there on one hand and it says for us to draw close to Him there in our innermost being.
This is fascinating.
So the book of Romans locates Jesus Christ in two places simultaneously.
1.) Paul says He is at the right hand of God interceding for His people (Rom. 8:34)
2.) But Paul also says He is Christ ... in you" - indwelling the lovers of Christ, His people.
Further more the Bible alludes to Jesus Christ being a ladder that joins earth to heaven and heaven to earth.
@Executioner-Brand
'Heaven' is a figure of speech representing the 5th dimension in our basic understanding