22 May 05
Originally posted by dj2beckerIf you believe the Bible and reality is the opposite of the Bible then you go to EVERLASTING TORMENT FOR BEING A XTIAN!!!
If you believe that the Bible is the Word of God, then Jesus Christ is the Son of God.
If you don't believe the Bible then Jesus Christ is just a fairy tale.
If you do believe the Bible and your belief is proven to be wrong when you die, you loose nothing.
If you don't believe the Bible and your belief is proven to be wrong when you die, you loose EVERYTHING.
23 May 05
Originally posted by menace71Hey Manny,
I think that who is Christ is the million dollar question. I realise that people are going to believe what they want to believe though. I admit that I have been struggling with Christianty. I do not want to let go of my faith. at one point in my life I was a hardcore/fundie Christian. I to this day find comfort in Christ words. I do have problems though w ...[text shortened]... and that I guess is my own issue I have to deal with. LOL 🙂 good subject though. Manny
Yes, people will 'believe what they want to believe'. That is a sad point, methinks, because there can only be one set of true things; everything that is true fitting together with every other true thing. And none of those truths are determined by who or how many 'believe in them'!
Now, if the young earth theory is indicated in Genesis, and is correctly interpreted, then there would be an explanation for the 10,000 light year problem right? When I look at a problem like that and then start with the premise that Genesis is true, then I can recognize a proposed solution to the problem. In this case, the answer is found in the concept of 'apparent age'.
Think about it this way. The problem, in fact, would not just be with the stars! When Adam was formed, and came to life he woke up, looked around and saw fully formed trees with ripe fruit ready to be had, the sun (or stars), mature animals, and even rivers flowing with water both upstream and down. All of it was created in the previous week, but as far as he knew, it sure seemed mature. It all had apparent age. I don't see how God would have a problem creating the light from a star arriving at earth at the same time he created the star.
Mike
24 May 05
Thanks for the reply Mike. oh & lemonjello in an earlier post. I think I need to look at the different creation positions before I have an opinion on the subject. You brought up some good points about apparent age. I always believed in a creator even before I became a Christian. I've been away from going to church(not that that in an of itself makes you a Christian) and being around fellow Christians. I think my frustration is with Christians that do not critically think. I think at least for me personlly I'm at a point that I'm questioning what I believe & not swallowing what others say hook line & sinker. I think to be happy with oneself you must ask the hard questions. so what was my point I forgot !! LOL 🙂 sorry I will keep reading everyones post. Manny
24 May 05
Originally posted by menace71Yes, a lot of us don't think as well as we might. But, the important thing is that Jesus never had an errant thought, or a silly argument, nor even a chess blunder! (I know I've made enough of those.)
Thanks for the reply Mike. oh & lemonjello in an earlier post. I think I need to look at the different creation positions before I have an opinion on the subject. You brought up some good points about apparent age. I always believed in a creator even before I became a Christian. I've been away from going to church(not that that in an of itself makes you a ...[text shortened]... o what was my point I forgot !! LOL 🙂 sorry I will keep reading everyones post. Manny
My point is that HE is the proof of the Faith.
24 May 05
Originally posted by chinking58Unless you believe that God changes the speed of light all the time to bedazle us, your apparent age nonsense doesn't work. Light travels one light year in a year thus the light from every object we see cannot be further than 10,000 light years away if the universe is only that old. Yet if the universe has a diameter of only 10,000 light years the sheer mass of the galaxies that we can see would be enough to gravitionally crush us making life impossible. Also all those fully formed nuclear furnaces ("stars"😉 in such a relatively small area, astronomically speaking, would fry any life remotely similiar to ours. Sorry the "apparent age" fairy tale don't fly.
Hey Manny,
Yes, people will 'believe what they want to believe'. That is a sad point, methinks, because there can only be one set of true things; everything that is true fitting together with every other true thing. And none of those truths are determined by who or how many 'believe in them'!
Now, if the young earth theory is indicated in Genesi ...[text shortened]... m creating the light from a star arriving at earth at the same time he created the star.
Mike
24 May 05
Originally posted by dj2beckerPascal's wager, eh?
If you believe that the Bible is the Word of God, then Jesus Christ is the Son of God.
If you don't believe the Bible then Jesus Christ is just a fairy tale.
If you do believe the Bible and your belief is proven to be wrong when you die, you loose nothing.
If you don't believe the Bible and your belief is proven to be wrong when you die, you loose EVERYTHING.
24 May 05
Originally posted by no1marauderWhat is the 10,000 light year problem?
Unless you believe that God changes the speed of light all the time to bedazle us, your apparent age nonsense doesn't work. Light travels one light year in a year thus the light from every object we see cannot be further than 10,000 light years away if the universe is only that old. Yet if the universe has a diameter of only 10,000 light years ...[text shortened]... would fry any life remotely similiar to ours. Sorry the "apparent age" fairy tale don't fly.
It seems to me that chinking is asking the question, "If the Universe is only 3000-odd years old, how do we have light from stars that are 10,000 light-years away," whereas no1 seems to be asking the question, "How can the Universe be only 10,000 light years in diameter?". Who is correct (in the context of this discussion)?
24 May 05
"How can the Universe be only 10,000 light years in diameter?". Who is correct (in the context of this discussion)?Have a read of "Wrinkles in time" (Smoot & Davidson), and Black holes baby universes and other essays" (Hawking). Might go along way towards these questions, and help dispel the (or reinforce depending on how you look at it) the creationists point of view.