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@ThinkOfOne
No games today sinky.
Who Jesus is not is whatever you say about Jesus. We're clear about that.
@sonship saidThen why do you keep playing games?
@ThinkOfOne
No games today sinky.
Who Jesus is not is whatever you say about Jesus. We're clear about that.
You continue keep talking around Jesus' words that I quoted on page 8.
For that matter you continue to keep talking around Jesus' words that I quoted on page 7 as well.
Do you think that if you avoid addressing those words, then they don't exist?
Why do you refuse to actually address those words jaywill?
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@ThinkOfOne
Sinky, you are really not asking anyone to address the words of Jesus.
The concepts of your philosophy is what you want to talk about.
The words of Jesus, selectively submitted, are only there to furnish a facade of respectability. What is exalted, enshrined, and frankly adored as an idol is your philosophy.
@sonship saidThis is your rationalization for refusing to actually address Jesus' words that I quoted on pages 7 and 8?
@ThinkOfOne
Sinky, you are really not asking anyone to address the words of Jesus.
The concepts of your philosophy is what you want to talk about.
The words of Jesus, selectively submitted, are only there to furnish a facade of respectability. What is exalted, enshrined, and frankly adored as an idol is your philosophy.
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This is your rationalization for refusing to actually address Jesus' words that I quoted on pages 7 and 8?
Yep, I guess you can take it that way sinky.
Probably nothing there in pages 7,8 that I have not responded to before.
Secondly, You, sinky, are not responsive to others, as has been noticed by more posters then just jaywill.
You have precious little to no ground to demand that others answer immediately to you. What you care not to discuss, you totally ignore. Mutuality is something pointedly NOT demonstrated with you.
Others have commented on this.
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@ThinkOfOne
Kelly said:
I think you nailed it, he doesn't do well answering points so he never does.
sinky:
I address on-topic points and questions as much as anyone on this forum.
No sinky, he's right. And I have noticed it has been said by strong skeptics of my faith as well.
Your concept of "on topic" is probably very rigged. What you don't want to address, you totally ignore, ... SILENCE, ie. go away for awhile (which all are entitled to do in my book) and come back with "business as usual" like nothing was ever asked of you.
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I went back to page seven and reviewed.
How many times I asked sinkone to tell me who the NT mentions as a true disciple, I lost count.
No definite answer. Correct me if I err.
Rajk999 jumps in with an answer to help out sinky.
But if I labor too much on that answer sinky can just fall back on that was not his answer but Rajk999's.
In the meantime sinky responds with no answer.
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This is what I think.
Arguing that Jesus is not the Son of God became old and boring in sinky's early atheist career.
Maybe he found it more effective to oppose Christians by arguing instead that Jesus has no followers.
Ie.
"I'll select some verses from John's Gospel that will make anyone who thinks she is a disciple of Jesus now think that they could not possibly be one. Just as good as denying Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God. "
I put forth Paul as a pioneer and wonderful model of a victorious disciple true of Jesus.
That goes over with sinkone like a pregnant pole vaulter. Oh, no. Paul can't be a model.
Then WHO?
Then WHO?
Then who else mentioned in the New Testament was a true disciple of Jesus?
Thomas ?
Sinkhole: Ie. 'Nevermind. jump through my hoops here, why don't you?'
@sonship saidEvidently jaywill is so desperate to make a point that he has repeatedly stooped to deceit in his efforts to do so.
This is what I think.
Arguing that Jesus is not the Son of God became old and boring in sinky's early atheist career.
Maybe he found it more effective to oppose Christians by arguing instead that Jesus has no followers.
Ie.
"I'll select some verses from John's Gospel that will make anyone who thinks she is a disciple of Jesus now think that they could not possibly ...[text shortened]... us?
Thomas ?
Sinkhole: Ie. 'Nevermind. jump through my hoops here, why don't you?'
Arguing that Jesus is not the Son of God became old and boring in sinky's early atheist career.
Maybe he found it more effective to oppose Christians by arguing instead that Jesus has no followers.
Ie.
"I'll select some verses from John's Gospel that will make anyone who thinks she is a disciple of Jesus now think that they could not possibly be one. Just as good as denying Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God. "
The reality is that I've often pointed out that Jesus explicitly states the purpose for which He was anointed ("Christ" means anointed one for those who may not know).
The reality is that I've often pointed out that Jesus calls His followers to become a son of God as He was a son of God.
The reality is that on this thread I've been pointing out how JESUS defines HIS true disciples. Jesus is very explicit. See below.
John 8
34Jesus answered them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, everyone who commits sin is the slave of sin.
31So Jesus was saying to those Jews who had believed Him, “If you abide in My word, then you are truly disciples of Mine; 32and you will know the truth, and the truth will make you free.”
John 15
8“My Father is glorified by this, that you bear much fruit, and so prove to be My disciples.
10“If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love; just as I have kept My Father’s commandments and abide in His love.
John 17
20“I do not ask on behalf of these alone, but for those also who believe in Me through their word; 21that they may all be one; even as You, Father, are in Me and I in You, that they also may be in Us, so that the world may believe that You sent Me.
22“The glory which You have given Me I have given to them, that they may be one, just as We are one; 23I in them and You in Me, that they may be perfected in unity, so that the world may know that You sent Me, and loved them, even as You have loved Me.
Matthew 10
24“A disciple is not above his teacher, nor a slave above his master. 25“It is enough for the disciple that he become like his teacher, and the slave like his master.
Luke 6
40“A pupil is not above his teacher; but everyone, after he has been fully trained, will be like his teacher.
If jaywill remains true to form, he'll continue to refuse to address Jesus' words above in any meaningful way. Instead he'll continue in a dishonest and deceitful manner.
I put forth Paul as a pioneer and wonderful model of a victorious disciple true of Jesus.
I put forth how JESUS defines HIS true disciples. Jesus is very explicit. See above.
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The reality is that I've often pointed out that Jesus calls His followers to become a son of God as He was a son of God.
Do you then believe in God ?
If you put the question to me, I would say "Yes, I believe in God."
The question put to YOU, your answer would be ....? What?
Yes or No ?
@thinkofone saidThis is how you are screw things up completely in the Bible when you attempt to cherry pick out just those things that fit your doctrine and not take into account the whole Word of God.
1 John 3:4 -9:
4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.
5 And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.
6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.
7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righ ...[text shortened]... od doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
Read the whole book, from verse 1 of the first chapter to the last chapter. You pluck things out of the middle of a book avoiding all context, this gives that appearance of having the same author, saying different things, while in the same book. You cannot know the Word of God without the context it is written in and you don't know it.
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Do you then believe in God ?
If you put the question to me, I would say "Yes, I believe in God."
The question put to YOU, your answer would be ....? What?
Yes or No ?
Sinky, I don't mean to rush you. But there are no reading comprehension problems for you with what I asked, are there ?
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I put forth how JESUS defines HIS true disciples. Jesus is very explicit. See above.
Nice maneuver there sinky.
But I did not ask you about the DEFINITION from Jesus, of a true disciple. I asked you to specify by NAME/S - definite at least one true disciple of Jesus.
See the difference sinky?
There is no reading comprehension difficulty here is there ?
Name a true disciple. Not point to Jesus' definition of a true disciple.
Now if there are NONE, then tell me that in the New Testament NONE are named.
Exodus 16:23
English Standard Version
he said to them, “This is what the Lord has commanded: ‘Tomorrow is a day of solemn rest, a holy Sabbath to the Lord; bake what you will bake and boil what you will boil, and all that is left over lay aside to be kept till the morning.’”
Exodus 20:10
King James Version
But the seventh day is the sabbath of the Lord thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:
Matthew 12:8
English Standard Version
For the Son of Man is lord of the Sabbath.”
Mark 2:28
English Standard Version
So the Son of Man is lord even of the Sabbath.”
Luke 6:5
English Standard Version
And he said to them, “The Son of Man is lord of the Sabbath.”
Who gave us the 10 Commandments? Jesus is the Lord of the Sabbath.
@kellyjay saidWere the people who wrote Mark 2:28, Luke 6:5 and Matthew 12:8 ~ decades after Jesus was executed ~ aware or unaware of Exodus 16:23 and Exodus 20:10 when they were writing?
Exodus 16:23
English Standard Version
he said to them, “This is what the Lord has commanded: ‘Tomorrow is a day of solemn rest, a holy Sabbath to the Lord; bake what you will bake and boil what you will boil, and all that is left over lay aside to be kept till the morning.’”
Exodus 20:10
King James Version
But the seventh day is the sabbath of the Lord thy God: in it ...[text shortened]... f Man is lord of the Sabbath.”
Who gave us the 10 Commandments? Jesus is the Lord of the Sabbath.