Who Jesus is and is not.

@kellyjay said
This is how you are screw things up completely in the Bible when you attempt to cherry pick out just those things that fit your doctrine and not take into account the whole Word of God.

Read the whole book, from verse 1 of the first chapter to the last chapter. You pluck things out of the middle of a book avoiding all context, this gives that appearance of having the same ...[text shortened]... me book. You cannot know the Word of God without the context it is written in and you don't know it.

1 John 3:4 -9:
4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.
5 And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.
6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.
7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.
8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

The above says what it says. If you think you can make a reasoned cogent case as to how it doesn't really say what it says, go for it.

If you remain true to form, you'll refuse.

Read the whole book, from verse 1 of the first chapter to the last chapter. You pluck things out of the middle of a book avoiding all context, this gives that appearance of having the same author, saying different things, while in the same book. You cannot know the Word of God without the context it is written in and you don't know it.

Actually I have read it. Instead of your usual tactic of making false and/or unsubstantiated claims, try backing it up with facts for a change. You know, present scripture as the basis for a cogent argument.

This is how you are screw things up completely in the Bible when you attempt to cherry pick out just those things that fit your doctrine and not take into account the whole Word of God.

You cherry pick out those things that don't fit the dogma that you've been taught. You lack the integrity to acknowledge this fact.

A prime example is 1 John 3:4-9.

@sonship said
@ThinkOfOne

I put forth how JESUS defines HIS true disciples. Jesus is very explicit. See above.

Nice maneuver there sinky.

But I did not ask you about the DEFINITION from Jesus, of a true disciple. I asked you to specify by NAME/S - definite at least one true disciple of Jesus.

See the difference sinky?
There is no reading compreh ...[text shortened]... e disciple.

Now if there are NONE, then tell me that in the New Testament NONE are named.

C'mon jaywill.

You started asking for a name as a way to avoid addressing the words of Jesus that I cited on page 7 then later the words of Jesus that I cited on page 8.

Unfortunately jaywill remains true to form and continues to refuse to address the words of Jesus that I cited on pages 7 and 8 in any meaningful way. Instead he has continued in a dishonest and deceitful manner.

@thinkofone said
1 John 3:4 -9:
4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.
5 And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.
6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.
7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteou ...[text shortened]... ve been taught. You lack the integrity to acknowledge this fact.

A prime example is 1 John 3:4-9.

If you are correct than share why your interpretation doesn’t put that book in conflict with itself and the rest of scripture.

@kellyjay said
If you are correct than share why your interpretation doesn’t put that book in conflict with itself and the rest of scripture.

As I said:

1 John 3:4 -9:
4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.
5 And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.
6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.
7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.
8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

The above says what it says. If you think you can make a reasoned cogent case as to how it doesn't really say what it says, go for it.

If you remain true to form, you'll refuse.


Instead of your usual tactic of making false and/or unsubstantiated claims, try backing it up with facts for a change. You know, present scripture as the basis for a cogent argument.

Evidently KJ has chosen once again to refuse. No scripture. No cogent argument.

@thinkofone said
As I said:

1 John 3:4 -9:
4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.
5 And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.
6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.
7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righte ...[text shortened]... gument.

Evidently KJ has chosen once again to refuse. No scripture. No cogent argument.

Repeating the verses you want to use does not explain why they are not in conflict with the rest of the book or the rest of scripture. The way you use them!

@kellyjay said
Repeating the verses you want to use does not explain why they are not in conflict with the rest of the book or the rest of scripture. The way you use them!

C'mon KJ. They say what they say.

Once again: The passage says what it says. If you think you can make a reasoned cogent case as to how it doesn't really say what it says, go for it.

If you remain true to form, you'll refuse.

@thinkofone said
C'mon KJ. They say what they say.

Once again: The passage says what it says. If you think you can make a reasoned cogent case as to how it doesn't really say what it says, go for it.

If you remain true to form, you'll refuse.

Yes they do as does the rest of that book, and the rest of the Bible. Context if it is not taken into account you are never going to understand scripture.

@kellyjay said
Yes they do as does the rest of that book, and the rest of the Bible. Context if it is not taken into account you are never going to understand scripture.

Once again again: "If you think you can make a reasoned cogent case as to how it doesn't really say what it says, go for it."

Go ahead KJ. Show that you can actually formulate a reasoned cogent argument instead of continuing with your usual stream of vacuous assertions and accusations.

@thinkofone said
1 John 3:4 -9:
4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.
5 And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.
6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.
7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteou ...[text shortened]... ve been taught. You lack the integrity to acknowledge this fact.

A prime example is 1 John 3:4-9.

1 John 3 English Standard Version (ESV)
1 See what kind of love the Father has given to us, that we should be called children of God; and so we are. The reason why the world does not know us is that it did not know him. 2 Beloved, we are God's children now, and what we will be has not yet appeared; but we know that when he appears we shall be like him, because we shall see him as he is. 3 And everyone who thus hopes in him purifies himself as he is pure.
4 Everyone who makes a practice of sinning also practices lawlessness; sin is lawlessness.

In context again, it is something needed to grasp all scriptural text. We can go back to the earlier chapters and see where, if any sins, we can go to God for forgiveness. Excluding the earlier chapters and even the few verses in Chapter 3, the text is easily twisted, losing its precise meaning. To prove the point in this case, we only need to add the verses of this chapter for context to see why they are so important.

In context, it is our hope in Christ and that He has not yet appeared but is coming, and when He does, we will be like Him. The changing us to be like Him is a work of God, not man. What we are to be doing is purifying ourselves as He is pure. Walking in the Spirit, we will not fulfill the lusts of the flesh, abiding in Him. We will not serve sin, which is why we need to be walking out our sanctification in Christ. Suggesting no one will or can sin once they are genuinely saved in Christ, is not backed up by the full chapter, the full book, or the rest of the Bible.

In total contrast from those who are purifying themselves are those who makes a practice of sinning have not given themselves to the Lord, nor are they abiding in Him.

@ThinkOfOne

You started asking for a name as a way to avoid addressing the words of Jesus that I cited on page 7 then later the words of Jesus that I cited on page 8.

Come on sinkhole, ONE name of ONE true disciple of Jesus.
You can't lift your fingers to type in the name of a true disciple mentioned in the New Testament ?

Unfortunately jaywill remains true to form and continues to refuse to address the words of Jesus that I cited on pages 7 and 8 in any meaningful way. Instead he has continued in a dishonest and deceitful manner.

"Meaningful way" according to your twisted "another Jesus" atheism? I think most of us know what "meaningful" means to you.

Anti-Christ - "meaningful". That's your philosophy.

@ThinkOfOne

If they did abide in Jesus' word, they would not commit sin, they would bear much fruit and their words would echo Jesus' words . They would be one (perfected in unity) with Jesus and God.

Very good !

So Christians are in the PROCESS of being perfected into oneness. That is what Jesus petitioned His Father FOR.

I in them, and You in Me, that they all may be PERFECTED into one, ... (John 17:23)

So Christians throughout the church age are being "perfected into one". That is not perfected to come up to some atheist's standard who intends to compete with Jesus to promote his philosophy.

Paul said also that there was a process and which we [Christians] will all arrive at the oneness of the faith.

"Until we all arrive at the oneness of the faith and of the full knowledge of the Son of God, at a full grown man, at the measure of the stanture of the fullness of Christ,

That we may be no longer little children tossed by waves and carried about by every wind of teaching in the sleight of men, in craftiness with a view to a system of error.

But holding to true in love, we may grow up into HIm in all things, who is the Head, Christ." (Eph. 4:13-15)

1.) It says we will all arrive. It doesn't say we will all arrive at the same time.

2.) The arriving is at the oneness of the faith, not on the conformity to a particular secondary practice or less then consequential doctrine.

3.) Thoughout the ages a minority of believers are inheriting the promises and arriving at this oneness. Some die not yet arriving. That does not stop God from obtaining some overcomers here and there in every age of the church.

4.) The oneness is of the full knowledge of a living Person, the Son of God. Anyone teaching a dead Jesus, like you, has NO WAY to arrive at the full knowledge of the Son of God.

With your unbelief you'll NEVER be in this arrival because you don't even believe in the Son of God.

5.) That we may be no longer children. Some in every age MATURE and pass childhood in the faith. It says we will all arrive. Some arrive sooner. Some, even a majority may arrive latter. But we will ALL mature and arrive.

We'll get there before you do because you don't even acknowledge the Son of God yet.

6.) Take the churches in the New Testament. Corinth, Ephesus, Phillipi ... . None of them were perfect utopias. All of them had problems.

Nevertheless within them SOME overcame and were inheriting the promises. They were maturing and arriving. The writer of Hebrews therefore said that we should be imitators of those who ARE inheriting the promises.

"That you may not be sluggish, but imitators of those who through faith and long-suffering are inheriting the promises." (Heb. 6:12)

7.) Unfortunately what you are doing is decribed in verse 14. That is attempting to toss immature growing believers with your sleight ... "carried about by every wind of teaching in the sleight of men, in craftiness with a view to a system of error."

You come in "craftiness."
You come in "the sleight of men."
You come with an am of establishing a system ... a "system of error" .

Your antichrist system of error has a deceptive and crafty title to deceive - "Jesus while He walked the earth" .

Maybe its a gentle wind, a distracting breeze to blow the Christian church ship off its course.

But we have a remedy -

"But holding to truth in love, we may grow up into Him in all things, who is the Head, Christ"

Your work is to pull men away from holding fast to the Head, Christ.
You say the Head walked the earth once but is now gone - dead.

"Out from whom all the body, being joined together and being knit together through every joint of the rich supply and through the operation in the measure of each one part causes the growth of the Body unto the building up of itself in love." (v.16)

This is happening on the earth today. We believers in Christ will all arrive. God has time.
And all will arrive before the age of the new heaven and new earth.

@kellyjay said
1 John 3 English Standard Version (ESV)
1 See what kind of love the Father has given to us, that we should be called children of God; and so we are. The reason why the world does not know us is that it did not know him. 2 Beloved, we are God's children now, and what we will be has not yet appeared; but we know that when he appears we shall be like him, because we shall see ...[text shortened]... who makes a practice of sinning have not given themselves to the Lord, nor are they abiding in Him.

In contrast to what you wrote, there is what 1 John 4-9 actually says:
1 John 3:4 -9:
4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.
5 And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.
6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.
7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.
8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

Specifically the following fly in the face of much of what you wrote:
"He that committeth sin is of the devil"
"Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin;"
"Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not"
"whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him"

How does this not fly in the face of what you wrote?

In total contrast from those who are purifying themselves are those who makes a practice of sinning have not given themselves to the Lord, nor are they abiding in Him.

Poieó is the Greek word that the KJV translates as "commit".

poieó: to make, do
Original Word: ποιέω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: poieó
Phonetic Spelling: (poy-eh'-o)
Definition: to make, do

Pasted from <https://biblehub.com/greek/4160.htm>

If "practice" was meant, the author of 1 John would have used "prasso""
Strong's Exhaustive Concordance
4238. prassó commit, do, perform
A primary verb; to "practise", i.e. Perform repeatedly or habitually (thus differing from poieo, which properly refers to a single act);

Pasted from <http://biblehub.com/greek/4238.htm>

Clearly the author of 1 John was speaking of a "single act" and not "habitually" or of "practice".

@thinkofone said
In contrast to what you wrote, there is what 1 John 4-9 actually says:
1 John 3:4 -9:
4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.
5 And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.
6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.
7 Little c ...[text shortened]...
Clearly the author of 1 John was speaking of a "single act" and not "habitually" or of "practice".

Once again you are repeating yourself to support your self and ignoring other text by down playing it. As I told you the it isn’t just the whole chapter it is the whole book. Focusing on just your pet scripture does not put that text in its proper context, you need it all.

@kellyjay said
Once again you are repeating yourself to support your self and ignoring other text by down playing it. As I told you the it isn’t just the whole chapter it is the whole book. Focusing on just your pet scripture does not put that text in its proper context, you need it all.

The point is that 1 John 3:4-9 says what it says. Thus far you haven't presented a reasonable way to reconcile it with your beliefs.

The fact is that 1 John 3:4-9 flies in the face of what you wrote.

Thus far, all you've basically done is reiterate the dogma that you've been taught and given that as a reason to ignore what 1 John 3:4-9 explicitly states. So what? Is that all you have?

You just cherry pick what supports your dogma and dismiss what doesn't. You claim that you don't, but your handling of 1 John 3:4-9 reveals the truth.

@ThinkOfOne

1 John 3:4 -9:
4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.
5 And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.
6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.
7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.
8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

C'mon sinky

What you need is experience of what the Apostle John is describing there. The letter speaks to a span of varied levels of experience of the believers -

little children - young men - fathers - (First John 2:12 - 14)

In other words the audience contained Christians at varied levels of grow in the divine life.
That means varied levels of freedom from sin.
That means varied levels of consciousness of their spiritual maturity.
That means varied levels of internal light in their subjective conscience.
That means varied levels of depth in the abiding in the Lord.
That means varied levels of depth of awareness of the need for confession and forsaking old ways of living.